Does Proof by Contradiction Confirm the Order of Elements in a Group?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the proof of a theorem related to the order of elements in a group, specifically focusing on the implications of proof by contradiction in this context.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the proof structure, particularly the implications of assuming the order of an inverse element. Questions arise regarding the contradiction presented in the proof and the conditions under which it holds.

Discussion Status

Some participants provide guidance on clarifying the proof steps and emphasize the need for precise equations. There is an acknowledgment of confusion regarding the contradiction, with one participant expressing understanding after further discussion.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the importance of correctly interpreting the conditions of the proof, particularly the assumptions about the orders of the elements involved. There is also a mention of a potential off-topic post that seeks clarification on related concepts.

annoymage
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lal means the order of a

Theorem.

Let G be a group and a[tex]\in[/tex]G. Then lal=la-1l

Proof.

Case 1, if lal=1

Case 2, if lal=n

Case 3, if lal=infinity

i understand case 1 and 3, so i'll be post the proof when need,

but, case 2

Here's the proof

Suppose lal=n

Then an=1 and ar[tex]\neq[/tex]1, 1[tex]\leq[/tex]r<n-----------(1)

To show that (a-1)n=1 and (a-1)r[tex]\neq[/tex]1, 1[tex]\leq[/tex]r<n.

Clearly, (a-1)n=(an)-1=(1)-1=1

Suppose (a-1)r=1, for some 1[tex]\leq[/tex]r<n

=> (ar)-1, 1[tex]\leq[/tex]r<n

=> ar=1, for some 1[tex]\leq[/tex]r<n

but this contradict (1)

So, (a-1)r[tex]\neq[/tex]1, 1[tex]\leq[/tex]r<n

Hence, lal=n=la-1l
I don't understand why, it suppose "(a-1)r=1, for some 1[tex]\leq[/tex]r<n"

then say it contradict with (1), i cannot see how they contradict.

Help, T_T
 
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=> (ar)-1, [tex]1 \leq r<n[/tex]

You need to finish this line by having an equation, not an expression. I suspect you meant to put =1 in there.

You showed that if the order of a-1 is r with r<n, then ar=1. But the order of a was n, so that's the contradiction
 
(a-1)r=a-r=an-r, so if 0<r<n and a-r=e, order of a is not n.
 
Office_Shredder said:
You need to finish this line by having an equation, not an expression. I suspect you meant to put =1 in there.

You showed that if the order of a-1 is r with r<n, then ar=1. But the order of a was n, so that's the contradiction

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, i get it, now I'm trying to catch what losiu99 try to convey.
in the mean time

do you mind checking this? please :D

https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=417859
 
Sorry, my post was a bit off topic, I thought you didn't understand the part on reaching ar=1 starting from (a-1)r.
 

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