Does Prophecy Validate the Truth of the Bible and Quran?

[Opinion]

Continued...

In the book of Revelation, the Bible mentions "A third part..."

The tribulation is not going to be "world" wide as most people suspect. The tribulation is geared to bring Israel back to reconciliation with God. Therefore, for a fact, the plagues will be executed in the middle-east region. Looking at Biblical history, you most likely will not be aware that the tribulation is actually happening. Everything will most likely happen subtlely and logically which will hide its' significance and impact to the scientific/atheist/religious world. Also, the Iraelites are the only ones the tribulation is reserved for. The tribulation saints, contrary to the "Left Behind" series are ONLY the 144,000 which is subsequent with the ending of the "times of the gentiles".

"World" is often referred to in the Bible as relating to nations and peoples of significance according to whoever utilizes the word. It was seldom used to reference the Earth.

The miracles and judgement performed by God in the old testiment was often overlooked after the fact that it happened. Surely, the children of Israel would acknowledge and glorify God in the instance, but then will go back to being whoring backsliders, almost to their destruction. These were during times when science was practically non-existent and gods were accountable for phenomena that happened. Today, knowledge has increased to the point where so-called "christianity", atheism, and other vain religion rely on it. Making God's power vain to them and also, aligning the true God up with false gods who never had power to begin with. This is, in my opinion, the "strong delusion" prophecied.

 

[Opinion]

Originally posted by megashawn
You say that as if you've already mentioned one.

Could you please point this out to us? Perhaps show the factuality of it?

Also it seems there is some kinda problem with the whole Exodus story. As I had seen it, they've found the workers who built the pyramids were valued citizens, not slaves. They were cared for, had shelter provided, etc.

Also, seems like there is absolutely no egyptian record of the events claimed in the bible. Why?

Hi Shawn,

I don't follow you. I would have to read the entire Bible out loud to enlighten you any further. These answers are coming from study. Also, I never mentioned anything about Egyptians besides the two sorcerers. I have not seen it in Egyptian record myself either. But, and a big BUT, there is record of the Exodus in other records of the surrounding countries. The Israelites gained regional fame because of this Exodus. They were known as drifters for quite some time after the fact. And to add to that BUT, there is a record of Joseph in Egyptian history. Putting two and two together... if there were no Exodus, according to the Egyptians, then where did Joseph's brothers and their children go?

 

[Iacchus32]

Originally posted by Another God
i too took it the same way, but upon having this pointed out to me, have decided that I agree with the 1290 dayst between the two events.

But the fact that it is less than perfectly clear makes it very very problematic in my mind.

I accept it to be time between the two now, because i was shown a lexicon with the hebrew version, and a more literal translation, and it seemed to pan out that way moreso. Besides, it says nothing about the 1290 days, but says that blessed is he who wait 1335 after it happens. So it makes sense that it says "From time of A, to time of B there will be 1290. 1335 days after that only the blessed will live."[/color]


Hmm, this lexicon website may be useful... here is what

Abomination of Desolation, [J] Crosswalk.com said about the abomination:

Actually I don't see anything here that refers to the word "after" in verse 12. According to the King James Version on the lexicon anyway ...

11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. (Daniel 12:11-12).

This is almost like saying, okay you do the math. And where did the 1335 days come from anyway? Just out of the blue? Or, is it referred to elsewhere?

Whereas if you read the Good News Translation, it seems to confirm the original idea (regarding verse 11) ...

11 From the time the daily sacrifices are stopped, that is, from the time of The Awful Horror, 1,290 days will pass.
12 Happy are those who remain faithful until 1,335 days are over! (Daniel 12:11-12).

This is the most clear translation so far, at least in terms of what we thought it should be. Which, seems to fit in quite well with the years 687 and 1977.

Whereas if you read the The New Revised Standard Version ...

11 From the time that the regular burnt offering is taken away and the abomination that desolates is set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred ninety days.
12 Happy are those who persevere and attain the thousand three hundred thirty-five days. (Daniel 12:11-12).

So there you have it! Two conflicting translations!


P.S. The Kings James version of verse 11 has three parts: the first part is active, the second part is passive (no modifying verb?), suggesting it's to be included with the with the first part, and the third part is active, suggesting it's supposed to act on the first and second part together. At least this is what it suggests to me.

 

[Another God]

Originally posted by Iacchus32
Whereas if you read the Good News Translation, it seems to confirm the original idea (regarding verse 11) ...

LOL..the Good News Translation. I don't think that even counts as a translation. More as a euphemism than anything... It takes the bible, and converts it into a fairy tale for brainwashing kids into what the church wants them to believe.

 

[Guybrush Threepwood]

is there a conclusion for this prophecy yet?

 

[lecooper]

1290 days

This has been an interesting line of threads, with discussion of days to years and back to days. The big question is, has this prophecy been fulfilled yet? I answer with a definite NO! For any good bible exegesis, one must consider the surrounding text carefully. A careful study of this chapter of Daniel along with the previous chapters, you can see that this is talking about the end times.

Verse 2: Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the Earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.

Verse 9: He replied, "Go your way, Daniel, because the words are closed up and sealed until the time of the end.

Verse 13: "As for you, go your way till the end. You will rest, and then at the end of the days you will rise to receive your allotted inheritance."

Just with these verses from this chapter, we can see that this is referring to the time of the end. If we back up to chapter 9, we see ""Seventy 'sevens' are decreed for your people..."

Chapter 9, verse 25 shows that 69 (7+62) weeks (of years) have already been fulfilled. That leaves one "7" or one week of years left to be fulfilled:

25 "Know and understand this: From the issuing of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One, the ruler, comes, there will be seven 'sevens,' and sixty-two 'sevens.' It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble. 26 After the sixty-two 'sevens,' the Anointed One will be cut off and will have nothing. The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolation’s have been decreed. 27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.' In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him. "

This final week is called "the 70th week." Notice here the multiple use of the words "the end." One side note is that this period of 69 weeks of years is 173,880 days. A man from Scotland Yards worked this out to the very day that Jesus came and presented Himself to the Jews as their Messiah and was "cut off." On our own calendar, this works out to the exact day! Are these prophecies accurate? Yes, extremely accurate! If someone wants to see the math for this, write me, lyle.cooper@cox.net

WE must remember that a prophetic year in the bible is 360 days. We will prove this here. There are other proofs of this throughout the bible. Daniel has his "time - times - and 1/2 time or 3 1/3 years. Revelation 11:1, speaking of the 70th week period, says "forty-two months" and "prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days." The 70th week is a 7 year period divided into two 1260 day periods. It is divided because God says that in the midst of the week the "daily" sacrifice will be taken away. This pinpoints the two 1260 day periods. Note that 1260 divided by 360 is 3 1/2. So we know that in the midst of this 7 year period, the daily sacrifices will cease.

How do we know that this wasn't fulfilled in AD 70? Good question. One reason is that Jesus mentions the "abomination of desolation" and relates it to the end of time and His Second Coming. You will note that Jesus did not return to Earth in AD 70 and set up his 1000-year reign as King of this planet! Also, most of the book of Revelation is about this 70th week, and it was written about AD 90, or 20 years after AD 70.

Now what about the 1290? There are two possibilities. One is that after the antichrist stops the daily sacrifices, he will not set up the abomination for another 1290 days. In other words, there are 1290 days between the two events. Daily sacrifices taken away - 1290 days - Abomination set up. Note that in this scenario, the 70th week will be over 30 days before the abomination is even set up. The next possibility is that these two events happen together and they happen exactly 1290 days before some other event, such as the cleansing of the temple. WE must note that these "daily sacrifices" have not taken place since AD 70! However, I am confident because of these scriptures that they soon will begin again. I know that the Jews now have red heifers to do the sacrifices. They have worked hard to achieve this. A red heifer is necessary because the bible says the sacrifice is to be a "red heifer without spot or blemish." (Numbers chapter 19) There is no doubt that the Jews want to restart the daily sacrifices.

However, to do this, there needs to be a temple! I believe that the 7-year treaty that starts the 70th week of Daniel will allow the Jews to build a new temple. As you can see, I believe that the 1290 days are still in the future, and that they are sure to come. I believe that the scripture is clear that the 70th week has not happened yet, but will happen very soon.

 

[lecooper]

I wanted to add something about the 1335th day. Both of these time frames start with the "daily" being removed. What will happen on the 1335th day? This is free for anyone's guess! Many online have guessed that it is the day that Jesus returns, but then, He said no one will know the day nor the hour - so why would he give the very day? It could be that this is the day that the antichrist is thrown into the lake of fire! That would be a blessed day!

Another thought about the 1290th day. Jesus told them that when they see 1) Jerusalem surrounded by armies, and 2) the abomination of desolation set up, they are to flee. If the abomination is set up 1290 days after the daily is removed, or 1290 days after the midpoint of the 7 years, the timing is just about right for this. Suppose the Jew that know this prophecy, flee, but are pushed up against the hills by the antichrist's armies with no place to flee. We know that when Jesus comes back and His feet touch Mt. Olivet, the mountain will split and create a huge valley (East and West) and the Jews will flee into the mountain to escape. (Zechariah 14) Jesus said HE would return a very short time after the 70th week is finished (1260 days after the daily is removed.)

The only trouble I have with this scenario is that armies might surround Jerusalem in the first 3 1/2 years, and they all flee then.

Although the last 3 1/2 year will be hell on earth, and millions (billions?) will die, many will survive, for Jesus has the "Nations" judgement" very soon after He returns to decide who will be able to enter into the 1000 year reign of Christ.

 

[Fred24]

The 666 Calculator and prophecy

Some of it's interesting BUT I'm looking for some feed back from people who know math. I copied one of this guys pages plus I have some links where he debates someone on this at his forum. Read the excerpt below then come back and click the links.

His 666 Calculator

http://www.geocities.com/iamthekey_2000/calculator.html

A debate on his forum - Part 1

http://s2.excoboard.com/exco/thread.php?forumid=1866&threadid=3912

A debate on his forum - Part 2

http://s2.excoboard.com/exco/thread.php?forumid=1866&threadid=4266 part 2

-----------------------------------------------
Excerpt form his page...


The English Langauge Letter Values uncovering Antichrist

A=6 B=12 C=18 D=24 E=30 F=36 G=42 H=48 I=54 J=60 K=66 L=72 M=78 N=84 O=90 P=96 Q=102 R=108 S=114 T=120 U=126 V=132 W =138 X=144 Y=150 Z=156

We will start with the 666 findings first. Then we will look at the 444, 906 and the other match total patterns. IMPORTANT NOTE: All groups shown on this page are calculated by the same exact alphabet key shown above. You can check these results using the calculator at the top of the page, or you can check them manually. There are also additional findings included on this page that were not shown at the main page, so be sure to review all of them.


A=6 B=12 C=18 D=24 E=30 F=36 G=42 H=48 I=54 J=60 K=66 L=72 M=78 N=84 O=90 P=96 Q=102 R=108 S=114 T=120 U=126 V=132 W =138 X=144 Y=150 Z=156

The 666 Findings word list using the Numeric alphabet above

Mark of Beast=666, Bio-Implant=666, plus the words; Sorceries, Necromancy, Witchcraft, Lustful, Corrupt, Insanity, Horrors, Treacheries, Slaughter, Computer, Calculation, False Market, Channellers, Stubborn, Unruly, Illusion, Book of the Dead, Son of Sin, A Perdition, Geneticist, Quarrels,Falling Away


A=6 B=12 C=18 D=24 E=30 F=36 G=42 H=48 I=54 J=60 K=66 L=72 M=78 N=84 O=90 P=96 Q=102 R=108 S=114 T=120 U=126 V=132 W =138 X=144 Y=150 Z=156


Other Interesting 666 totals

New York=666 (United Nations?)

Waco Texas=666 (David Koresh?)

A Branch Davidian=666 (David Koresh's group)


A=6 B=12 C=18 D=24 E=30 F=36 G=42 H=48 I=54 J=60 K=66 L=72 M=78 N=84 O=90 P=96 Q=102 R=108 S=114 T=120 U=126 V=132 W =138 X=144 Y=150 Z=156


Almost 666 but not quite

Osama Bin Laden = 660

Adolf Hitler = 660

Darwinism = 660


A=6 B=12 C=18 D=24 E=30 F=36 G=42 H=48 I=54 J=60 K=66 L=72 M=78 N=84 O=90 P=96 Q=102 R=108 S=114 T=120 U=126 V=132 W =138 X=144 Y=150 Z=156

The 444 group of words using the same alphabet values

Jesus=444, Yshua=444, plus the words; Messiah, Cross, Gospel, Jewish, Joshua, Obedient , Increase, Forgave, English, Gematria, Parent, Church age, Fruit

A=6 B=12 C=18 D=24 E=30 F=36 G=42 H=48 I=54 J=60 K=66 L=72 M=78 N=84 O=90 P=96 Q=102 R=108 S=114 T=120 U=126 V=132 W =138 X=144 Y=150 Z=156

The 906 group of words using the same alphabet values

Jesus is Lord=906, Jesus Christ=906, Son of the Lord, Lord's Prayer, Holy Spirit, Lord of Hosts,Through Love, Jesus Glory, Jesus Is Alive, Redeemer From God, Jesus Sacrificed, Shed Blood For Man, Prophetic King, Unconditional, Healing Promise, Love is the Law

The 888 group of words using the same alphabet values

A=6 B=12 C=18 D=24 E=30 F=36 G=42 H=48 I=54 J=60 K=66 L=72 M=78 N=84 O=90 P=96 Q=102 R=108 S=114 T=120 U=126 V=132 W =138 X=144 Y=150 Z=156

Divine Presence = 888

Omnipresent = 888

Messiah Jesus = 888

Coming Truth = 888

A Holy Truth = 888

Law of Liberty = 888

King of the Sabbath = 888

The King Jesus = 888

Finished Cross = 888

The Lion of Judah = 888

Morning Star = 888

Scriptures = 888

The Trinity = 888

The Lord's Time = 888

The House of God = 888

The Doings of God = 888

Biblical Prophet = 888


Group 204


A=6 B=12 C=18 D=24 E=30 F=36 G=42 H=48 I=54 J=60 K=66 L=72 M=78 N=84 O=90 P=96 Q=102 R=108 S=114 T=120 U=126 V=132 W =138 X=144 Y=150 Z=156


Grace = 204

Free = 204

One = 204


Group 360


Teacher = 360

Holy = 360

Pure = 360

Word = 360

Believe = 360

Helps = 360

The most common errors I hear by email in the form of statements from Christians trying to correct me on this subject:

Many Christians say: The English Gematria codes cannot be correct because the mark of the beast isn't even literal, just as God did not mean for us to literally do mathematics when calculating the number. We are only supposed to reckon the number 666 symbolically.
MY ANSWER:-The MARK of the Beast is LITERIAL and so is the calculation of the name and number 666.

Whenever you hear a Christian say the mark of the beast is not literal then run don't walk to a private place and pray for that person. If they teach such a thing then they will be deceived and destroyed if Jesus Christ does not deliver and correct them. You see most Christians will not study the scriptures beyond the basic Gospel, they like to let their pastor, or a priest do that for them. Christians just as non believers are quite often very busy and don't always study the scriptures as they should. It's a poor excuse, but sadly it happens far to often among Christians of all denominations.

It is also very dangerous not study the scriptures at a deeper level for yourself. To not study the scriptures seriously and to just take someone else's word for it is like trusting a man that tells you that your car will never need another oil change with his new and improved oil. It sure sounds good but even if some type of new oil was developed that could live up to that claim you still would not just take that person's word for it without verifying it quite seriously first.

Now friends when you do serious study of the Bible's original Koine Greek definitions (new testament) for the words "calculate" and the word "mark" it becomes very clear that those who make statements saying the mark is not literal are erred and on a runaway trian speeding down the wrong way track, a very deadly track at that. Even Hal Lindsey and Grant Jeffrey will confirm these Koine greek definitions. For non believers visiting if you ever wanted to know why Christians debate and argue at times then here is one of the most serious re*********************** Truncated

 

[Moonbear]

Alright, I'm no Biblical scholar. It took me halfway through this thread to figure out what book the verse in question was coming from. I want to read it in context before I post much else on it.

However, I thought one point is worth mentioning now, for what it's worth. Regarding whether those numbers mean years, days or a combination of both, something else should be considered in determining the length of time indicated. If days mean years, then we need to make sure to correct for different calendar systems between then and now. I could be wrong on this, but I have this vague recollection that the number of days in a year was different when a lunar calendar was used prior to the creation of the Gregorian calendar we now use that defines a year as 265-1/4 days (that 1/4 is the leap year fudge factor). I don't think this is going to make a huge difference, except that over a few thousand years, a day or two here and there could add up to a few years difference. If the objective is to determine the precise time when a prophesy should occur to decide if it indeed HAS occurred as predicted, then we need to make sure we're calculating that date correctly.

As a side note, I really appreciate the contributions of the people who have read some of the text in its original language who are helping in the interpretation based on original wording. I find that to be a difficulty in interpreting the Bible, when the English version uses an archaic form of English to translate an archaic form of another language, that in turn can lead to a substantial difference in interpretation of the meaning. The "overspreading" example is a good one. I did take that to mean covering or encompassing, but can see how one could also read that as spread too much or too far.

Edit:
Here's a link about some different calendars and the number of days in a year according to them. I don't know which one is appropriate, but as you will see, you can get vastly different dates depending which one you use.
http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/astronomy/Calendar.html

 

[Razi Abid]

The Bible

All you people, leave the bible, follow the Quran. It is more authentic, and it has a lot of prophecies which were fulfilled and which will be fulfilled. You'll stay stunned on looking at the prophecies it prophecized. You may call it the modern of all books of God. I believe that the Bible is also a book of God, and all muslims believe it, But the Quran is more modern. It prophecized the fall of Byzantine empire, the signs of the Judgment day, etc.