Does the big bang theory conflict with the law of conservation?

In summary, the zero-energy universe hypothesis is the idea that the universe has no energy or mass. It is possible, under certain conditions, to define an energy such that it is conserved and also always zero for an expanding universe.
  • #1
Tim13
20
0
Perhaps I misunderstand the big bang theory but doesn't it basically hold that nothing existed prior to the big bang? If there truly was no energy or mass prior to the big bang then doesn't that conflict with the law of conservation of mass and energy?
 
Space news on Phys.org
  • #2
The big bang is about the early history of the universe, not the origin of the universe.

The big bang explains how the universe expanded from a small, dense point.

Where did that small, dense pointcome from? That's another thing entirely.

Edit to add: This is explained in many public sources like this one http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang
 
  • #3
Okay, thank you for the clarification.
 
  • #4
Tim13 said:
Perhaps I misunderstand the big bang theory but doesn't it basically hold that nothing existed prior to the big bang? If there truly was no energy or mass prior to the big bang then doesn't that conflict with the law of conservation of mass and energy?
Well, neither mass nor energy are perfectly conserved. Mass isn't a conserved quantity at all: we can and do generate new mass all the time in particle accelerators. Energy isn't conserved in curved space-times, such as an expanding universe.
 
  • #5
Chalnoth said:
Energy isn't conserved in curved space-times, such as an expanding universe.

I wasn't aware of this. Could you elaborate?
 
  • #6
g.lemaitre said:
I wasn't aware of this. Could you elaborate?
Here's an in-depth analysis:
http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/GR/energy_gr.html

A super-short way of saying it, though, is that energy can't be conserved because it is a coordinate-dependent quantity. And in General Relativity, coordinate-dependent quantities aren't "real". While you can define energies that are conserved in certain, specific situations, those same energy quantities tend to either not be conserved in other situations, or even fail to be conserved just from changing the coordinates.
 
  • #7
  • #8
d3mm said:
What do you think of the zero energy universe hypothesis?

On the Zero-energy Universe
Marcelo Samuel Berman
http://arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc/0605063
Its fits with my previous statement. It is possible, under certain conditions, to define an energy such that it is conserved and also always zero for an expanding universe. It still isn't a general statement.
 
  • #9
Chalnoth said:
Well, neither mass nor energy are perfectly conserved. Mass isn't a conserved quantity at all: we can and do generate new mass all the time in particle accelerators. Energy isn't conserved in curved space-times, such as an expanding universe.

Really? It may seem like particle accelerators create matter but isn't it really just the transfer of energy? Doesn't the law of conservation allow for the transfer of energy to matter and vice versa?
 
  • #10
Tim13 said:
Really? It may seem like particle accelerators create matter but isn't it really just the transfer of energy? Doesn't the law of conservation allow for the transfer of energy to matter and vice versa?
There are many conservation laws. I was pointing out that mass isn't one of them. Yes, particle accelerators obey the law of conservation of energy, because those experiments are performed in (approximately) flat space-time. And the small amount of curvature that is imposed by the Earth is easily handled by considering gravitational potential energy.
 
  • #11
d3mm said:
What do you think of the zero energy universe hypothesis?

On the Zero-energy Universe
Marcelo Samuel Berman
http://arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc/0605063

To add to what Chalnoth said, you can in some cases define energy globally in GR, but this usually involves (but not always, there are ways of defining energy such as Bondi mass which are perfectly valid) using pseudo-tensors (as in the case of Berman).

There is a FAQ about this:

https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=506985
 

1. What is the law of conservation?

The law of conservation, also known as the law of energy conservation, states that energy can neither be created nor destroyed, but can only be transformed from one form to another.

2. How does the big bang theory conflict with the law of conservation?

The big bang theory does not necessarily conflict with the law of conservation. It is a theory that describes the expansion of the universe and the origin of all matter and energy. While it does suggest that the universe began with a singularity, it does not necessarily violate the law of conservation as matter and energy can still be transformed in the process of the big bang.

3. Some sources say that the big bang theory violates the law of conservation. Is this true?

No, it is not true. While there are some interpretations of the big bang theory that may suggest a violation of the law of conservation, the theory itself does not explicitly state this. It is important to understand that the big bang theory is a scientific theory that is constantly being refined and updated as new evidence is discovered.

4. Can the law of conservation be applied to the entire universe?

Yes, the law of conservation applies to the entire universe. However, the law does not necessarily apply to the universe as a whole, as the universe is constantly expanding and changing. The law of conservation can be applied to individual systems within the universe, but not the universe as a whole.

5. Are there any other scientific theories that may conflict with the law of conservation?

There are some theories, such as the theory of relativity and quantum mechanics, that may challenge or alter our understanding of the law of conservation. However, these theories do not necessarily conflict with the law, but rather provide a deeper understanding of how energy and matter behave in different contexts.

Similar threads

Replies
20
Views
2K
Replies
22
Views
2K
  • Cosmology
Replies
17
Views
2K
  • Cosmology
Replies
1
Views
1K
Replies
15
Views
1K
Replies
33
Views
1K
Replies
3
Views
1K
Replies
4
Views
924
Replies
32
Views
3K
Replies
25
Views
2K
Back
Top