Does the L2 norm of a vector destroy all directional info?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties of the L2 norm (Euclidean norm) of vectors in relation to directional information and the existence of multiple vectors with the same norm. Participants explore the implications of using the norm to classify trajectories in a way that minimizes directional information.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that fixing the norm of a vector in ℝ3 results in an infinite number of solutions, visualizing this as a sphere of possible vectors.
  • Another participant notes that in n dimensions, all vectors from the origin to the surface of a sphere of radius r have the same norm, ||v||=r.
  • There are inquiries about proving the existence of infinitely many vectors with the same norm, with references to parameterization of the sphere.
  • One participant proposes parameterizing a portion of the sphere using spherical coordinates to demonstrate the infinite solutions.
  • Another participant reiterates the definition of a sphere in n dimensions, emphasizing that all points on the surface satisfy the norm condition.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the concept that fixing the norm leads to infinitely many vectors, but the discussion includes varying approaches to proving this and exploring its implications for trajectory classification. No consensus is reached on the best method to demonstrate these ideas.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about the dimensionality of space and the nature of trajectories, but these are not fully resolved or defined. The implications of using the norm for trajectory classification remain speculative.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for individuals interested in mathematical properties of norms, vector spaces, and applications in trajectory analysis or classification in physics and engineering contexts.

phasic
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Sorry I'm a little rusty with my math and proof logic, and this feels like a dumb question, but oh well! The Euclidian norm of a vector in ℝ3 is \|{v}\| = \sqrt{x^2 + y^2 + z^2} where \|{v}\| \geq 0. I'm trying to show that there is always an infinite number of solutions for arbitrary positive v, in other words that there are an infinite number of vectors of any fixed length. I intuitively know this to be true by visually imagining that fixing v gives a sphere of possible solutions.

I can disprove through counterexample easily that \{ \forall v \mid \|{v}\| = \sqrt{{x_1}^2 + {y_1}^2 + {z_1}^2} &gt; 0 \} \Rightarrow <br /> <br /> \\ \{\nexists (x_2, y_2, z_2) \neq (x_1, y_1, z_1) \mid \|{v}\| = \sqrt{{x_2}^2 + {y_2}^2 + {z_2}^2} = \sqrt{{x_1}^2 + {y_1}^2 + {z_1}^2} \}. I'm thinking I could just convert or invert this somehow logically to show what I want. I know the way to show that only one solution exists for an equation, but not how to show an infinite number of solutions exists. I'm recalling free variables in linear systems but I don't see how I might apply that here in a general case.

Assuming this to be true, this means that if I want to destroy the directional information of a trajectory I can just take it's norm at every point? The reason I want to do this is to train a classifier to classify two types of trajectories but not by using the starting and ending points or any other directional information, because the two types of trajectories end at different positions in space and that's too "obvious." Instead I'd take the magnitude of the position, velocity, acceleration, and jerk, hopefully still retaining some other kinds of qualities of the trajectory. Another way to do this might be to warp every trajectory to the same starting and end points in space, but I still worry the trajectories are still discernible solely by using location/directional information in some way. I think I'd have to do this anyway, too, when using position magnitude. To put this all another way, I'm not really interested in the shape of the trajectory, per se, but more in it's qualities and dynamics. Like, two trajectories can look exactly the same in space, but not in time. Hope this is clear enough. Happy to provide more info if necessary.
 
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In n dimensions (for your example, n = 3), all vectors (v) from the origin to the surface of a sphere of radius r have ||v||=r.
 
Is there any way to prove this?
 
By the definition of a sphere.
 
phasic said:
Is there any way to prove this?

You can parameterize a portion of the sphere and then observe that there are infinitely many parameters.

For the sphere in three space one could use

##(cos(α)cos(θ),cos(α)sin(θ),sin(α))##
 
lavinia said:
You can parameterize a portion of the sphere and then observe that there are infinitely many parameters.

For the sphere in three space one could use

##(cos(α)cos(θ),cos(α)sin(θ),sin(α))##

And this generalizes in a rather obvious way to multiple dimensions: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N-sphere#Spherical_coordinates
 
In n dimensions, a spherical surface of radius r centered at the origin consists of all points (x_1,x_2,...,x_n)\ where\ x_1^2+x_2^2+...x_n^2=r^2. Therefore ||(x_1,x_2,...,x_n)||=r .
 

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