Does the order of quantifiers matter in propositional calculus?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the significance of the order of quantifiers in propositional calculus and predicate calculus. Participants explore whether changing the order of quantifiers affects the meaning of statements and seek to understand how this can be demonstrated.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the order of quantifiers matters, suggesting that different orders can lead to different interpretations and meanings.
  • One participant argues that there are no quantifiers in propositional calculus, implying that the discussion should focus on predicate calculus where the order does matter.
  • A specific example is provided to illustrate the difference in meaning between the two orders of quantifiers in predicate calculus, highlighting that one order can yield a false statement while the other can be true.
  • Another participant notes that in certain cases, such as with two existential or two universal quantifiers, the order can be reversed without changing the meaning, provided that no free variables become bound and vice versa.
  • It is stated that quantifiers of different types cannot be reversed, indicating a limitation in how quantifiers can be manipulated.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relevance of quantifier order, with some asserting its importance and others questioning its applicability in propositional calculus. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of quantifier order across different contexts.

Contextual Notes

There is a distinction made between propositional calculus and predicate calculus, which may affect the applicability of the arguments presented. Additionally, the discussion includes specific examples that illustrate the nuances of quantifier order, but these examples do not lead to a consensus on the broader implications.

Arian.D
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I think it matters, for example when I think of examples that I encounter in life it seems that the order of quantifiers matters and if we change the order the meaning could be interpreted differently, but does the order of quantifiers matter in propositional calculus? If yes, how could we show that it matters?
 
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Arian.D said:
I think it matters, for example when I think of examples that I encounter in life it seems that the order of quantifiers matters and if we change the order the meaning could be interpreted differently, but does the order of quantifiers matter in propositional calculus? If yes, how could we show that it matters?



Exactly because of what you said it matters: it is enough one single example that shows that we can have different

meaning in order to deduce the order of quantifiers matters, and a lot, in fact.

DonAntonio
 
Arian.D said:
I think it matters, for example when I think of examples that I encounter in life it seems that the order of quantifiers matters and if we change the order the meaning could be interpreted differently, but does the order of quantifiers matter in propositional calculus? If yes, how could we show that it matters?

There aren't any quantifiers in propositional calculus...? If you mean predicate calculus, then yes, the order matters. e.g.,

[itex]\exists[/itex]x[itex]\forall[/itex]yR(x, y)
[itex]\forall[/itex]y[itex]\exists[/itex]xR(x, y)

The first case says that there exists something such that it stands in the relation R to everything. The second case says that everything stands in the relation R to something.
e.g., given the domain U = {1, 2, 3, ...} and R = {(x, y) | x is larger than y}, case one is false since there is no number that it is larger than every number. But case two is true, since every number has some successor. It's a matter of convention rather than something you show.
 
The order can be reversed in the special case of two existential or two universal quantifiers, one entirely within the scope of the other, as long as no free variable occurrences become bound and no bound variable occurrences become free in the process of reversing the order.

Quantifiers of different types can never be reversed.
 

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