Does the Vacuum Solution in General Relativity Hold in the Presence of Matter?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the vacuum solution in General Relativity (GR) and its applicability in the presence of matter. Participants explore the implications of the vacuum solution, the field equations, and comparisons to Gauss's law of gravity.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asserts that the vacuum solution, where Rab = 0, should hold even in the presence of matter, suggesting that an infinitesimal vacuum chamber does not affect the local solution.
  • Another participant challenges this view, arguing that while individual contributions from infinitesimal volumes may be small, their cumulative effect can be non-zero, thus invalidating the initial claim.
  • A third participant points out that if Rab = 0, the field equations do not resemble Gauss's law for non-vanishing sources, as it would imply T_ab = 0, akin to Laplace's equation.
  • A later reply acknowledges the complexity of the context and expresses gratitude for the clarification provided by the previous participant.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the validity of applying the vacuum solution in the presence of matter, with some arguing for its applicability and others contesting this interpretation. The discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the nuanced understanding of contributions from infinitesimal volumes and their implications for the field equations in GR, without reaching a consensus on the matter.

Thinkor
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The general field equation for GR is

Rab - 1/2 gab R = 8πTab

where I am setting G = 1 and c = 1.

Also, the vacuum solution is

Rab = 0

But it seems to me that this "vacuum" solution must hold even when there is matter present. Pick a point within a planet. Then excavate an infinitesimal vacuum chamber about the point. That can't affect the solution there because the local contribution to the solution is infinitesimal. Therefore, whether there is a vacuum at a point or not makes no difference, the vacuum solution still holds. Rab = 0 is a constraint on curvature that is everywhere satisfied.

So why can't the field equation then be simplified to this by replacing Rab with 0?

- 1/2 gab R = 8πTab

That makes it look a lot like Gauss's law of gravity, which does not add in a zero term representing a vacuum solution.

2[itex]\varphi[/itex] = 4πρ

This makes more sense to me. The solution is determined by the sources only, not by a zero valued vacuum solution.

Did Einstein glue together two equations into one for brevity? If so, why doesn't Gauss's law need another equation? And why would a vacuum solution be needed in addition to the source term in GR?
 
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Thinkor said:
But it seems to me that this "vacuum" solution must hold even when there is matter present. Pick a point within a planet. Then excavate an infinitesimal vacuum chamber about the point. That can't affect the solution there because the local contribution to the solution is infinitesimal. Therefore, whether there is a vacuum at a point or not makes no difference, the vacuum solution still holds.

This is not correct. You could make this argument for calculating an integral, for example. I could say "The contribution to the integral from each infinitesimal dx is infinitesimal, therefore I can ignore it and set it to zero, and the integral of any function is zero." The problem with your argument is that, while the contribution to the solution for each infinitesimal volume is infinitesimal, when I add up an infinite number of them, I get a non-zero result. Imagine taking your "inifinitesimal vacuum chamber" to be finite but small, then take the limiting procedure of taking the volume of the chamber to zero. While the volume of the chamber tends to zero, the number of chambers tends to infinity and the sum of the contributions from all of the chambers is non-zero.
 
Thinkor said:
So why can't the field equation then be simplified to this by replacing Rab with 0?

- 1/2 gab R = 8πTab

That makes it look a lot like Gauss's law of gravity, which does not add in a zero term representing a vacuum solution.

2 = 4πρ

In addition to phyzguy's comments, if ##R_{ab} = 0## then clearly the field equations do not resemble ##\nabla^2 \varphi = 4\pi \rho## for non-vanishing ##\rho## because ##R_{ab} = 0## trivially implies ##R = 0## which reduces your equation to ##T_{ab} = 0##, the Newtonian analogue of which is Laplace's equation ##\nabla^2 \varphi = 0##.
 
phyzguy said:
This is not correct. You could make this argument for calculating an integral, for example. I could say "The contribution to the integral from each infinitesimal dx is infinitesimal, therefore I can ignore it and set it to zero, and the integral of any function is zero." The problem with your argument is that, while the contribution to the solution for each infinitesimal volume is infinitesimal, when I add up an infinite number of them, I get a non-zero result. Imagine taking your "inifinitesimal vacuum chamber" to be finite but small, then take the limiting procedure of taking the volume of the chamber to zero. While the volume of the chamber tends to zero, the number of chambers tends to infinity and the sum of the contributions from all of the chambers is non-zero.

Yes, thanks. I failed to recognize in it the more complex context that exists here.
 

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