Does this function have a name?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of a function defined as the length of the graph curve from 0 to x, exploring whether it can be expressed in algebraic form and if it has a specific name. The conversation includes theoretical aspects of calculus and the concept of arc length.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the function f(x) representing the length of the graph curve does not have a specific name, as it describes a method rather than a unique function.
  • Others argue that the length of the graph from 0 to x can be expressed using the integral formula \int_0^x \sqrt{1+ (f'(t))^2} dt, which is a standard result in calculus.
  • A participant suggests that while closed form solutions exist for certain curves (e.g., straight lines, circles, parabolas), they do not exist for most curves, including ellipses.
  • Another participant raises the idea of finding a function that returns itself when the length of the curve function is applied, leading to a mathematical exploration of possible solutions.
  • It is noted that the length of the arc between two points must be greater than the straight line distance, which leads to a conclusion that no such function exists over any non-zero domain.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the existence of a function that meets the criteria of returning itself when the length function is applied. There is no consensus on whether the original function has a specific name, with some asserting it does not and others suggesting it may be referred to as arc length or rectification.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in defining the function and the conditions under which certain solutions may or may not exist. The mathematical reasoning involves assumptions about the nature of curves and their lengths.

guysensei1
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A function f(x) where f(x)=length of the graph curve/line from 0 to x

Can this function be expressed in algebraic form or some other form?

Does it have a name?
 
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You are talking about a particular way of getting a function, not a specific function so, no, it does not have a name. As one learns in Calculus, the length of the graph of y= f(x), from 0 to x is given by \int_0^x \sqrt{1+ (f'(t))^2} dt.
 
HallsofIvy said:
You are talking about a particular way of getting a function, not a specific function so, no, it does not have a name. As one learns in Calculus, the length of the graph of y= f(x), from 0 to x is given by \int_0^x \sqrt{1+ (f'(t))^2} dt.

It's without a doubt a specific function, one whose domain is the Cartesian product of x and the function space. I don't think that this is a good reason for it to not have a name.
 
guysensei1 said:
Can this function be expressed in algebraic form or some other form?

Not in general, but the solutions for a straight line and for a circle should be fairly obvious. Closed form solutions do exist for a few more complex curves e.g. parabola, catenery and cycloid but not for most others, even the humble ellipse.

guysensei1 said:
Does it have a name?

The calculation of the length of a curve between two points is called rectification, or simply calculating arc length.
 
MrAnchovy said:
Not in general, but the solutions for a straight line and for a circle should be fairly obvious. Closed form solutions do exist for a few more complex curves e.g. parabola, catenery and cycloid but not for most others, even the humble ellipse.



The calculation of the length of a curve between two points is called rectification, or simply calculating arc length.


What I was looking for is a function that gives itself when the length of curve function is applied.
 
guysensei1 said:
What I was looking for is a function that gives itself when the length of curve function is applied.

Try looking for this function. Clearly f(0) = 0. Let y = f(1). The length of the arc between (0, 0) and (1, y) is given by ## \sqrt{1 + y^2} ## so we have ## y = \sqrt{1 + y^2} ## or ## y^2 = 1 + y^2 ## which has no solution - the function you are looking for does not exist (over any non-zero domain).
 
MrAnchovy said:
Try looking for this function. Clearly f(0) = 0. Let y = f(1). The length of the arc between (0, 0) and (1, y) is given by ## \sqrt{1 + y^2} ##
Why is that? That surely just gives the length of the straight line from (0, 0) to (1, y). The curve you are looking for is not going to be of that form.
 
skiller said:
Why is that? That surely just gives the length of the straight line from (0, 0) to (1, y). The curve you are looking for is not going to be of that form.

No, but its length has to be strictly greater than the length of the straight line between the two points.
 
skiller said:
Why is that? That surely just gives the length of the straight line from (0, 0) to (1, y). The curve you are looking for is not going to be of that form.

Oh, I thought one thing and wrote something slightly different, let's try again.

guysensei1 said:
What I was looking for is a function that gives itself when the length of curve function is applied.

Try looking for this function. Clearly f(0) = 0. Let y = f(1). The shortest arc between (0, 0) and (1, y) is simply the diagonal of length ## \sqrt{1 + y^2} ##, and so y must be at least as large as that. So we have ## y \ge \sqrt{1 + y^2} ## or ## y^2 \ge 1 + y^2 ## which has no real solution. The function you are looking for does not exist (over any non-zero domain).
 

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