Doing a paper on the strong nuclear force --

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the strong nuclear force, specifically focusing on the Lagrangian for the interaction between a proton and a neutron. Participants explore various theoretical frameworks, including Yukawa potential and SU(3) gauge theory, while addressing the complexities involved in presenting these concepts to an undergraduate audience.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks a quantitative account of the strong nuclear force, specifically the Lagrangian for the interaction between a proton and a neutron, and expresses familiarity with Lagrangian field theory but not with QFT or QCD.
  • Another participant suggests starting with the Yukawa potential as a relevant concept for the discussion.
  • A participant notes that while the Yukawa theory provides a Lagrangian density, it may not represent the strong force as understood in particle physics, which is typically described by SU(3) gauge theory.
  • There is a question about whether the representation of the strong force using SU(3) gauge theory can be simplified enough for undergraduate seniors in mechanical and nuclear engineering.
  • One participant clarifies that the force between nucleons is mediated by pions rather than gluons, suggesting that a superficial explanation may be more appropriate for undergraduates.
  • A recommendation is made to avoid including complex information that may not be understood due to a lack of background in QFT, while also providing a resource for further insight into the meson theory of nuclear forces.
  • For deuterium interactions, it is mentioned that nuclear physics books may provide useful semi-theoretical and experimental potentials, indicating that deuterium interactions can be approached pedagogically.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the appropriate level of complexity for explaining the strong nuclear force and its representation in various theoretical frameworks. There is no consensus on the best approach to present these concepts to undergraduates.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge limitations in understanding due to varying levels of familiarity with QFT and the complexities of effective theories. The discussion reflects a range of assumptions about the audience's background knowledge and the depth of explanation required.

xdrgnh
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I'm doing a paper on the strong nuclear force for a nuclear physics class. I want to give a good quantitative account for it. I'm very familiar with Lagrangian field theory but not so much with QFT or QCD. I don't have time to learn all of the ins and outs of QFT and for this paper and for this class I don't need to know. What I';m looking for specifically is just the Lagrangian for the strong nuclear before between one proton and one neutron. If I can describe quantitatively the strong attraction in deuterium (H 2) that would be excellent.
 
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This can be done on very many different levels. Have you started by looking up what the Yukawa potential is?
 
Yes I have I do plan on talking about that. But I would really like to discuss the Lagrangian Density for the interaction between one proton and one neutron.
 
There is a Lagrangian density for Yukawa theory on the Wikipedia Yukawa potential page.
However, note that this is generally not what an elementary particle physicist will consider the strong force, which is an SU(3) gauge theory. The interaction between protons and neutrons which emerge from this force are much weaker than the strong force itself in a similar fashion to electromagnetic van der Waals' interactions between neutral molecules being weaker than that between ions.
 
I'm pretty familiar with group theory. Do you know if the representation of the strong force between a single proton and neutron represented using SU(3) gauge theory simple enough to be explained to a class of undergrad seniors in mechanical and nuclear engineering?
 
The force between nucleons is based upon the exchange of pions rather than gluons, which are the SU(3) gauge bosons. I would not try to explain this other than very superficially to undergrads.
 
If it's a presentation, then I'd recommend (I don't know what your supervisor did) that you'd avoid inserting information and stuff that you are unable to understand (due to lacking of QFT background - especially for effective theories).

However, to get an insight (since it's not my business to tell you what to do or how), you can look here:
http://www.scholarpedia.org/article/Nuclear_Forces#The_meson_theory_of_nuclear_forces
eg. it has the lagrangian L_{\pi NN} (for pion-nucleon-nucleon) in Fig5.

For the Deuterium interactions you can also look into nuclear physics books, which work for example with semi-theoretical+experimental potentials (there are many terms in the nuclear potentials however I think the deuterium is quite simple -at least when dealt with pedagogically)
 

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