Doomsday Preppers: Are They Mentally Ill?

[micromass]

Do you remember the LA Riots? How did the Korean shop owners survive the mob?

No idea, I don't live in america. We don't seem to have much riots here.

It's also a good practice to train your children when you have deadly tools in the house.

It's better practise not to have deadly tools in the house. What's the point? Have deadly tools in the house only increases the chance that something goes wrong to you! (I just know I'm going to get much reaction on this, but I stand by what I say)

The whole point of preparing is that so your children and yourself do not assume room temperature in case of a problem. If you are ready why should you be scared?

Ask them. They are scared and they are scaring their children that everybody will die soon. Let children be children, don't start training them for things that might happen. Let them be naive and innocent.

Those people have built a nearly self-sustaining ecosystem in their back yards, not murdered human beings.

I have nothing against a self-sustaining ecosystem. I have something against the people scaring their children to dead and preparing them to kill their neighbours.
If you want a self-sustaining ecosystem to get better and fresh food, or because you want to teach children to live "in harmony with nature", then that's find. But don't go scaring them to dead.

Once again, TV show dramatic examples of people preparing for nearly impossible scenarios, I don't have 2 years of food! When I buy cans of something I eat I buy two instead of one, so if it's not on special next week I don't have to buy it and just buy when it's cheap!

Fine, I have nothing against this. But I don't want national geographic to show us all these dramatic examples. And I certainly don't want "experts" that encourage them. They should tell them that they're abusing their children.

 

[Evo]

Viktor, I appreciate you speaking with us. You sound more rational than the families on tv. What is your opinion on these *preppers* stockpiling guns and teaching their family to shoot to kill humans, (and they were usung tagets with human outlines for practice), not surprised that Nat Geo has hidden that segment from their website.

Do you, or do you plan to build an underground complex, do you expect you will need to kill off people in your community if a doomsday scenario happened? What to you would be a doomsday scenario?

 

[Proton Soup]

Viktor, I appreciate you speaking with us. You sound more rational than the families on tv. What is your opinion on these *preppers* stockpiling guns and teaching their family to shoot to kill humans, (and they were usung tagets with human outlines for practice), not surprised that Nat Geo has hidden that segment from their website.

Do you, or do you plan to build an underground complex, do you expect you will need to kill off people in your community if a doomsday scenario happened? What to you would be a doomsday scenario?

there's nothing wrong with learning to defend yourself from other humans.

 

[Willowz]

What about Tom Cruise and his $10 million bunker under his house. Built for the same 'reason' this family is. I saw a program showing how some bunker manufacturer is getting tons of orders after the Fukushima disaster. Everyone is so insecure and atomized. Might as well hide in a bunker for the rest of your life. Not

 

[Evo]

there's nothing wrong with learning to defend yourself from other humans.

There is when you are expecting hoards of people attacking you in your underground bunker because of some imaginary doomsday event.

That's irrational.

 

[rhody]

What about Tom Cruise and his $10 million bunker under his house. Built for the same 'reason' this family is. I saw a program showing how some bunker manufacturer is getting tons of orders after the Fukushima disaster. Everyone is so insecure and atomized. Might as well hide in a bunker for the rest of your life. Not

Willowz,

Maybe Crew's took his role in "War of the Worlds" too seriously, and/or his belief in the Church of Scientology might have something to do with it. If this is true, then it begs the question, why isn't John Travolta (also a member) not like Crews ?

Rhody...

P.S. I thought you might like this... "www.tomcruiseisnuts.com"[/URL]

 

[turbo]

There is when you are expecting hoards of people attacking you in your underground bunker because of some imaginary doomsday event.

That's irrational.

Everybody that I know on this road and surrounding area has firearms. Most everybody hunts (one guy doesn't, except to kill garden pests), plus there is extra incentive to stay armed and trained in marksmanship: Burglaries and home invasions are up locally over the last 5 years or so due to an increase in the abuse of meth and prescription pain-killers. When you live at least 20 minutes from the nearest possible 911 responder, it's just common sense to be prepared to defend yourself.

The notion that we'd have to kill each other to fight over food and other resources is so far removed from reality... Those people on Nat Geo are nuts!

In fact, if the power grid failed catastrophically, we'd probably all share the contents of our freezers, so it wouldn't go to waste, and sun-dry as much food as possible to preserve it. We'd probably also take turns killing and butchering deer, moose, and whatever other game we could bring down, so that everybody would have fresh meat for as long as possible. Nobody here is entirely dependent on fossil fuels, and we all have plenty of wood on our properties.

One guy is a notoriously poor shot (he takes a lot of low-percentage shots), so we'd have to assign him to something other than hunting just to conserve ammunition.

 

[Viktor_Reznov]

Viktor, I appreciate you speaking with us. You sound more rational than the families on tv. What is your opinion on these *preppers* stockpiling guns and teaching their family to shoot to kill humans, (and they were usung tagets with human outlines for practice), not surprised that Nat Geo has hidden that segment from their website.

Do you, or do you plan to build an underground complex, do you expect you will need to kill off people in your community if a doomsday scenario happened? What to you would be a doomsday scenario?

On guns I hope that I never have to use mine against another human being. If the situation gets that bad it means that it's a life or death scenario.

I would hope the community would band together in a doomsday scenario but there are cities where it's simply impossible to feed everyone locally and I plan to live as far away as possible from those places.


When it comes to finding a place to live it's always complicated and a source of debate in "the community". I don't want a bunker like the last person we saw on the show because the probability of nuclear war is so low that it makes little sense to sacrifice so much money into building an underground nuclear proof structure unless an individual is truly rich.


As for doomsday scenarios it varies, they range from the impossible to the somewhat realistic but there are some very concerning scenarios that are much more plausible.
Here is a good rule: The deadlier the event, the more people it affects or kills the less likely it is!

 

[Willowz]

Willowz,

Maybe Crew's took his role in "War of the Worlds" too seriously, and/or his belief in the Church of Scientology might have something to do with it. If this is true, then it begs the question, why isn't John Travolta (also a member) not like Crews ?

I don't know how it begs the question or why Travolta isn't a member. But, the point is that this isn't a single case amongst the masses. I mean this show does generate interest? There are people who actually believe in this 2012 stuff?. But, overall life will go on, hopefully.

 

[G01]

I once heard a good quote in reference to doomsday scenarios. I don't remember who said it, so forgive me for not giving the source. Paraphrased below:

Something about doomsday scenarios speaks to a certain type of person. For some, it's easier to imagine taking the whole world with you when you die than it is to imagine the world going on without you.

 

[Viktor_Reznov]

I don't know how it begs the question or why Travolta isn't a member. But, the point is that this isn't a single case amongst the masses. I mean this show does generate interest? There are people who actually believe in this 2012 stuff?. But, overall life will go on, hopefully.

Most don't but some do. I know one thing for sure is that in 2013 there's going to be great deals on camping gear, long term food and generators

Just like in 2001 ;)

I once heard a good quote in reference to doomsday scenarios. I don't remember who said it, so forgive me for not giving the source. Paraphrased below:

Something about doomsday scenarios speaks to a certain type of person. For some, it's easier to imagine taking the whole world with you when you die than it is to imagine the world going on without you.

Egocentrism? Possibly...

 

[Newai]

So I started digging a hole in the sand out back next to the railroad. I can't quite get my whole head in there, but I'm practicing. But wow! Sand going down my nostrils is the worst experience I've ever had preparing for disaster.

And all the while people keep driving past me, going to work, hanging out with friends and family, and just generally enjoying life. What a bunch of fools!

 

[PrepperMike]

I consider myself a prepper. Am I prepping for some end-of-the-world scenario? No, I doubt there is much out there that will end the world.

Scenario one, A CME could knock out several dozen of our major transformer substations. Guess what, we don't manufacture them in the states and there is an 18 month lead time for them.

Scenario two, North Korea (and I am sure several other of our enemies) is developing a major EMP weapon. Deploy it from 30 to 300 miles up over central USA and no more power grid, many vehicles disabled and severe disruption of communications, again with several months to years needed to fix it.

Scenario three: Failure of our economic system with breakdown in all supply trains. Only 3 days of food in most food distribution centers. Think about what happens in stores with the slightest emergency. What will you eat after three days is gone by and you can't just hop over to the supermarket? Not to mention no gas. And what will all those nice reasonable folks on the public dole do when their checks stop arriving? Just say "well, thanks for all you have given us in the past" and roll over and starve?

Scenario four: Major outbreak of disease (either natural or terroristic) like the Spanish flu epidemic or other large pandemic that wipes out a majority of the population and the support for the technological grid that holds us together.

Then add in local events such as flood, tornadoes, hurricanes. My father and step-mom were recently without water for a week, power for 2 weeks and telephone/internet for 4 weeks after the tornadoes in Alabama.

I would rather have it, and not need it, than need it, and not have it.

With the me-first attitudes, entitlement generation(s), and lack of preparedness out there (oh Obama will take care of me, after all I voted for him!) you better think of defending what you have from your neighbors as when you are at the narrow passage there is no brother and no friend and they will come for what you have.

 

[Viktor_Reznov]

Everybody that I know on this road and surrounding area has firearms. Most everybody hunts (one guy doesn't, except to kill garden pests), plus there is extra incentive to stay armed and trained in marksmanship: Burglaries and home invasions are up locally over the last 5 years or so due to an increase in the abuse of meth and prescription pain-killers. When you live at least 20 minutes from the nearest possible 911 responder, it's just common sense to be prepared to defend yourself.

The notion that we'd have to kill each other to fight over food and other resources is so far removed from reality... Those people on Nat Geo are nuts!

In fact, if the power grid failed catastrophically, we'd probably all share the contents of our freezers, so it wouldn't go to waste, and sun-dry as much food as possible to preserve it. We'd probably also take turns killing and butchering deer, moose, and whatever other game we could bring down, so that everybody would have fresh meat for as long as possible. Nobody here is entirely dependent on fossil fuels, and we all have plenty of wood on our properties.

One guy is a notoriously poor shot (he takes a lot of low-percentage shots), so we'd have to assign him to something other than hunting just to conserve ammunition.

You're better prepared than most and yet you miss the point ;)

What happens when the grid is down and your well pump doesn't work?
How much gas do you have for that generator to power that well pump?

What happens to animals that are over-hunted? Do they stay in place?

So I started digging a hole in the sand out back next to the railroad. I can't quite get my whole head in there, but I'm practicing. But wow! Sand going down my nostrils is the worst experience I've ever had preparing for disaster.

And all the while people keep driving past me, going to work, hanging out with friends and family, and just generally enjoying life. What a bunch of fools!

That's another part of the show that makes me cringe the "I gave up gold and this and bla bla bla" of COURSE it's partly staged and faked for TV (just like that night delivery of food).

The ONLY thing that's required to be sacrificed for prepping is DEBT. You cannot prepare if every month you're choked by credit cards, car payments and TV loans. Of course you need a mortgage but the faster you pay it off the better.

I enjoy life a lot, so do many people in this movement.



ASK YOURSELF QUESTIONS, and if you do not like the answers do something about it!

 

[Evo]

I consider myself a prepper. Am I prepping for some end-of-the-world scenario? No, I doubt there is much out there that will end the world.

Scenario one, A CME could knock out several dozen of our major transformer substations. Guess what, we don't manufacture them in the states and there is an 18 month lead time for them.

Scenario two, North Korea (and I am sure several other of our enemies) is developing a major EMP weapon. Deploy it from 30 to 300 miles up over central USA and no more power grid, many vehicles disabled and severe disruption of communications, again with several months to years needed to fix it.

Scenario three: Failure of our economic system with breakdown in all supply trains. Only 3 days of food in most food distribution centers. Think about what happens in stores with the slightest emergency. What will you eat after three days is gone by and you can't just hop over to the supermarket? Not to mention no gas. And what will all those nice reasonable folks on the public dole do when their checks stop arriving? Just say "well, thanks for all you have given us in the past" and roll over and starve?

Scenario four: Major outbreak of disease (either natural or terroristic) like the Spanish flu epidemic or other large pandemic that wipes out a majority of the population and the support for the technological grid that holds us together.

Then add in local events such as flood, tornadoes, hurricanes. My father and step-mom were recently without water for a week, power for 2 weeks and telephone/internet for 4 weeks after the tornadoes in Alabama.

I would rather have it, and not need it, than need it, and not have it.

With the me-first attitudes, entitlement generation(s), and lack of preparedness out there (oh Obama will take care of me, after all I voted for him!) you better think of defending what you have from your neighbors as when you are at the narrow passage there is no brother and no friend and they will come for what you have.

Most of this is because people don't understand how things work. Local disasters are just that, local, and trucks, planes and helicopters can bring in supplies or take people out. I've been in a blizzard where we had no electricity for over 2 weeks, but after the roads were cleared (within 48 hours) I put the kids in the car and went to stay with a friend that had electricity. Just for the convenience, I could have just as easily stayed.

What I find spurs hoarding is pimarily a lack of knowlege. Irrational fear pushes people past hoarding to become completely incapable of thinking clearly. They become obsessed with imaginary fears . Doomsday tv, films, and webites just feed that irrational fear.

Just a reminder that this is a science forum, and fear mongering, overly speculative posts, crackpottery, etc... are not allowed.

 

[micromass]

With the me-first attitudes, entitlement generation(s), and lack of preparedness out there (oh Obama will take care of me, after all I voted for him!) you better think of defending what you have from your neighbors as when you are at the narrow passage there is no brother and no friend and they will come for what you have.

Is that really how you think of your neighbours and friends?? People who will come after you to steal everything of you? Wow, I find that actually quite sad. I honestly don't think you will survive long with such an attitude.

In Japan, there were two nuclear power plants that got destroyed and did we see any rioting there? Did we see people killing other people for food? No, the emergency workers operated quite swiftly and helped as many as they could. This is how it will go in almost every disaster!

It's clear you don't like Obama and your government, but there are people out there who will protect you and who will help you in emergencies. The nature of humans is cooperation, not isolation.

 

[turbo]

You're better prepared than most and yet you miss the point ;)What happens when the grid is down and your well pump doesn't work?
How much gas do you have for that generator to power that well pump?

I have a dug well and a drilled well. I do not need a pump to get water. My nearest neighbors' son (the one who is a bad shot) has water running out of the ground. (Artesian well that flows all year long. All of my neighbors except from one on the opposite side of the road can tap that brook. We'll be OK. You might not be.

 

[rhody]

I fear (dripping sarcasm) that this thread does not have much shelf life left...

Rhody...

 

[PrepperMike]

Is that really how you think of your neighbours and friends?? People who will come after you to steal everything of you? Wow, I find that actually quite sad. I honestly don't think you will survive long with such an attitude.

In Japan, there were two nuclear power plants that got destroyed and did we see any rioting there? Did we see people killing other people for food? No, the emergency workers operated quite swiftly and helped as many as they could. This is how it will go in almost every disaster!

It's clear you don't like Obama and your government, but there are people out there who will protect you and who will help you in emergencies. The nature of humans is cooperation, not isolation.

I am not worried about my immediate neighbors. I worry about the thousands outside the neighborhood I live in who depend entirely on the government for existence. Home invasions, car break-ins, burglaries are already on the rise across the country, will it get better or worse in a real emergency?

Japan is not the USA. Japan has a greater work ethic and innate sense of honor built into their culture. Comparing what happens there to what would happen here shows a lack of understanding of the fundamental structures of the two societies. Just look at the looting in the aftermath of almost every major disaster. Look at riots happening sometimes for no other reason than a sports team won or lost. Look at the new random violence being done in the name of fun by gangs of young people.

What would you do to feed your children 3 weeks into an emergency when no one can come help because it is a country or world-wide situation? Would you steal someone elses food? Would you let your kids or wife starve?

A few final questions:

Do you have car insurance? If yes why? Are you planning on having a wreck?
Do you have life insurance? If yes, why? Are you planning on dying tomorrow?
Do you have home insurance? If yes, why? Are you going to burn down your house tomorrow?

You do all of the above to prepare for the unknown. Prepping for disasters which the local government or national governments may not be able to handle is another form of insurance against the unknown.

 

[Evo]

I am not worried about my immediate neighbors. I worry about the thousands outside the neighborhood I live in who depend entirely on the government for existence. Home invasions, car break-ins, burglaries are already on the rise across the country, will it get better or worse in a real emergency?

Japan is not the USA. Japan has a greater work ethic and innate sense of honor built into their culture. Comparing what happens there to what would happen here shows a lack of understanding of the fundamental structures of the two societies. Just look at the looting in the aftermath of almost every major disaster. Look at riots happening sometimes for no other reason than a sports team won or lost. Look at the new random violence being done in the name of fun by gangs of young people.

What would you do to feed your children 3 weeks into an emergency when no one can come help because it is a country or world-wide situation? Would you steal someone elses food? Would you let your kids or wife starve?

A few final questions:

Do you have car insurance? If yes why? Are you planning on having a wreck?
Do you have life insurance? If yes, why? Are you planning on dying tomorrow?
Do you have home insurance? If yes, why? Are you going to burn down your house tomorrow?

You do all of the above to prepare for the unknown. Prepping for disasters which the local government or national governments may not be able to handle is another form of insurance against the unknown.

You sound very paranoid. Most hoarders have a form of OCD (obsessive compulsive disorder).

Nothing wrong with with being cautious, it's fearing disasters of catastrophic proportions that are over the top. I think most people have extra batteries, candles, a flashlight, a BBQ grill, etc...

If you are afraid you will run out, and keeping more makes you less anxious, then I am all for it. When you start worrying that you will have to fight off neighbors, or people in your community, even prepare to kill them, then you've crossed the line of what's ok.

 

[micromass]

Do you have car insurance? If yes why? Are you planning on having a wreck?

I don't have a car. I don't need it.

Do you have life insurance? If yes, why? Are you planning on dying tomorrow?

I see no reason to have a life insurance really. You're just paying money to the insurance company for no reason. Everybody dies some time, it's nothing special to me.

Do you have home insurance? If yes, why? Are you going to burn down your house tomorrow?

I have this one, but you got to admit, something happening to your house is far more likely than a world-wide disaster. The point of insurance is to insure you for things which are likely to happen, I'm not going to insure myself for an asteroid impact.

All these disasters you mention (EMP's, CME's,...). How many times have they occurred and caused serious damage?? Never. OK, it might happen, but there are a lot of things that might happen. Floods and storms might destroy your house and your food supplies, nuclear power plants might explode and put radiation over your food supplies. Your house might go up in flames together with your food supplies. Your food supplies might be contaminated. A gamma ray burst might happen and eredicate all life on this planet. A lion might escape the zoo and eat you. Apart from the last ones, all of this is much more likelier than an EMP.

I prefer to help people who need it now, not preparing to help myself in future events that will most likely not happen.

You do all of the above to prepare for the unknown. Prepping for disasters which the local government or national governments may not be able to handle is another form of insurance against the unknown.

So far, my local and national government have done quite well. I see no reason to doubt them.

 

[Newai]

A few final questions:

Do you have car insurance? If yes why? Are you planning on having a wreck?
Do you have life insurance? If yes, why? Are you planning on dying tomorrow?
Do you have home insurance? If yes, why? Are you going to burn down your house tomorrow?

I have car insurance because without it I couldn't get it licensed. It's the law here. Plus, if someone else hits me and doesn't have coverage, mine takes it.
I have no life insurance, but then I don't have a family. But I have health insurance. Even though I don't plan on being in an emergency, health problems almost always pop up at some point.
I don't have home insurance. I live in an apartment and most of my property value is less than what I have in my bank account.

None of these have anything to do with disasters.

And none of the basic preparation for disaster is wrong, but what started this thread were examples of people taking it to insane degrees. I suppose I could buy a hazmat suit, but I'll take my chances with the sun god.

 

[micromass]

Most hoarders have a form of OCD (obsessive compulsive disorder).

I'm sorry, Evo, but I have OCD myself and these "preppers" don't sound like they have OCD. The thing is that people with OCD know that their fears are irrational. They make very illogical connections and they know that it is illogical. They are simply unable to confront their fears.

Preppers also have irrational fears, but they rationalize their fears. They actually convince themselves that their fears might become reality. This is not the behaviour of somebody with OCD.

 

[BobG]

Is that really how you think of your neighbours and friends?? People who will come after you to steal everything of you? Wow, I find that actually quite sad. I honestly don't think you will survive long with such an attitude.

In Japan, there were two nuclear power plants that got destroyed and did we see any rioting there? Did we see people killing other people for food? No, the emergency workers operated quite swiftly and helped as many as they could. This is how it will go in almost every disaster!

It's clear you don't like Obama and your government, but there are people out there who will protect you and who will help you in emergencies. The nature of humans is cooperation, not isolation.

It is true that looting in natural disasters is much rarer than public thinks. A lot of that has to do with looting being a very visually compelling image when shown on television. People also overestimate the danger of being a victim of crime when any crime in the entire nation feels like local crime when people watch it on TV in their own living rooms.

If you live in a high crime neighborhood, crime won't stop just because there's a natural disaster. It will decrease, though. If you live in a neighborhood with a low crime rate, criminals won't suddenly come flocking to your door just because there's a natural disaster, either. In fact, the crime rate in your neighborhood will usually decrease.

So, I don't see preparing to kill the neighbors as a necessary precaution.

None the less, it is reasonable to be prepared for power outages or a lack of transportation or a lack of clean water. Have some idea of how you'd handle the situation without the assistance of emergency workers for a few days, at least. And, usually, having neighbors would be an asset in that type of situation; not a threat.

But, if you live in the wrong place and the wrong time, there's just a chance that being prepared to kill your neighbors could make you one of the lucky ones. I still remember reading about the siege of Leningrad. Holy cow! I think some situations are just beyond preparing for and situations where an entire city is so weak from hunger that they've given up counting the dead, let alone burying them, would be one of those situations. But one could certainly say that those who were prepared to kill other humans for food had a better chance of living than those who weren't. Those who had a little too much flesh and a little bit too healthy of a complexion were regarded as goulish and frightening, whether their health was a result of their ability to hoard wealth in a siege or the result of outright cannabilism.

 

[Evo]

I just think they are really sensitive people who are really scared by all the fear mongering of the media. There might be some paranoid people out there (certainly the ones you described in the national geographic show)

That's what I'm talking about, people that have underground bunkers, put their children through drills, stuff that's really beyond normal.

There is a town in france that has been swarmed with Raelians that believe that it is the only place on Earth that will escape the Mayan 2012 doomsday.

I'll get the articles.

I love one guy's comment "every year as December 31st approaches on my calendar, I realize that the end of my calendar means the end of time. Then my kids get me a new calendar for Christmas and everything is ok for another year".

He actually said it better, but you get the gist.

 

[lisab]

That's what I'm talking about, people that have underground bunkers, put their children through drills, stuff that's really beyond normal.

There is a town in france that has been swarmed with Raelians that believe that it is the only place on Earth that will escape the Mayan 2012 doomsday.

I'll get the articles.

I love one guy's comment "every year as December 31st approaches on my calendar, I realize that the end of my calendar means the end of time. Then my kids get me a new calendar for Christmas and everything is ok for another year".

He actually said it better, but you get the gist.

Is this the one?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...vive-2012-Armageddon-plagued-by-visitors.html

The mayor of a picturesque French village has threatened to call in the army to seal it off from a tide of New Age fanatics and UFO watchers, who are convinced it is the only place on Earth to be spared Armageddon in 2012.

I feel bad for those villagers.

 

[rootX]

Post disaster crisis handling is job of the government not of individuals.

All the government agencies advice on what kind of measures should be taken during crisis.

 

[Evo]

Is this the one?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...vive-2012-Armageddon-plagued-by-visitors.html

I feel bad for those villagers.

Yes, very sad for those poor villagers.

See here.

http://old.news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110616/od_uk_nm/oukoe_uk_france_sects

 

[micromass]

I say who cares what others teach their children, it is THEIR children NOT yours.

Children are not your private property, you can't just do with them whatever you like. Hitting your children hard is child abuse. Telling children that other people are after you and want to steal whatever you have is child abuse. Lletting children do drills and instilling fear in them is child abuse. I don't think this should be tolerated.

 

[BavarianRaven]

The point is that the people in the superdome just didn't have the money to stock up food.

all it takes is 10 or 15 dollars a week and a bit of creativity to stock-pile several weeks worth of food and water...

If your home is under water, and all of your survival kits are under water, what's your point?

BOB... a bug-out-bag. a small kit to grab should you have to flee. some water and food and clothing and medical supplies and a few other goodies to keep you going until you reach somewhere safe :)