Doomsday Preppers: Are They Mentally Ill?

[Evo]

There are some sane people there, people that understand that's it's wrong to subject children to end of the world scenarios. That's not right for a child. A group of adults that want to collect stuff, no problem. Adults that force children through daily drills to don hazmat suits because the end of the world is next year, no.

 

[Loren Booda]

How do these doomsdayers meet the definition of mental illness? They may be ignorant or superstitious, but that does not qualify as a medical condition. People who have lived with mental illness include Newton, Beethoven and Buzz Aldrin.

 

[Evo]

How do these doomsdayers meet the definition of mental illness? They may be ignorant or superstitious, but that does not qualify as a medical condition. People who have lived with mental illness include Newton, Beethoven and Buzz Aldrin.

Mental illness covers a vast range Loren, you should know that. A huge number of mentally ill people hold jobs, have families, and live next door. It just depends on what the mental illness results in.

 

[DaveC426913]

There are some sane people there, people that understand that's it's wrong to subject people to end of the world scenarious. That's not right for a child. A group of adults that want to collect stuff, no problem. Adults that force children through daily drills to don hazmat suits because the end of the world is next year, no.

Agreed. Being prepared comes with it a responsibility to understand the likelihood of various types of disasters happening. I've already had a power outage here, in a major North American megalopolis, so that's a relatively high likelihood.

But why do these people believe so strongly in a 2012 disaster?

Actually, I guess I know why. The Bell curve of human behaviour.

 

[bill1064]

I draw the line at the ones that gather weapons and practice shooting at human targets because they believe that they will have to kill their neighbors.

A good place to draw the line?

Cool, I generally practice on targets that look a lot like the sign in front of Target.

And I don't intend to shoot my neighbors. I only plan to shoot people who try to steal from me.

I hope I never have to.

So far as the people teaching their kids about prepping. The consensus over on http://www.survivalistboards.com/ is that you are right. Let them be kids. But someone should talk to the parents instead of snatching their kids away.

 

[Evo]

Cool, I generally practice on targets that look a lot like the sign in front of Target.

And I don't intend to shoot my neighbors. I only plan to shoot people who try to steal from me.

I hope I never have to.

So far as the people teaching their kids about prepping. The consensus over on http://www.survivalistboards.com/ is that you are right. Let them be kids. But someone should talk to the parents instead of snatching their kids away.

That's been my question all along, should people be allowed to do this to small children? I never said take their children away, but someone needs to intervene on behalf of the kids. It's so sad. Especially when it's avoidable and there is no reason for it. Do we tell a child every time that they get into a car that they may die a horrible death?

 

[DaveC426913]

Let them be kids.

When I started stockpiling a few things to get through a few days or a week of disaster, I took great pains to keep my actions and the stash hidden from my children.

They have enough on their plate getting through normal life. My role as a parent is to quietly plan for the .1% disasters so they can get on with the 99.9% likelihood of their real lives.

 

[bill1064]

Agreed. Being prepared comes with it a responsibility to understand the likelihood of various types of disasters happening. I've already had a power outage here, in a major North American megalopolis, so that's a relatively high likelihood.

But why do these people believe so strongly in a 2012 disaster?

Actually, I guess I know why. The Bell curve of human behaviour.

Actually most preppers don't buy the 2012 thing. The 2012ers are a small offshoot.

2012 theorists gravitate to the prepping and survival world because, where else would they learn about surviving a disaster?


And Dave, isn't laughing at people who have beliefs different from your a bit low on the bell curve too?

 

[DaveC426913]

Do we tell a child every time that they get into a car that they may die a horrible death?

No, but not the best analogy. Telling them about the likelihood of a car crash does not help them prepare for it and hone their skills to deal with it, which is the principle of what these preppers are trying to do, even if they do have a skewed idea of what's going to happen next Christmas.

 

[KrisOhn]

Reading this thread makes me wonder, what happens when you run out of food and the world is still in chaos? Why not just learn to survive in a wilderness situation than horde food?

I'm glad I was raised on a farm and spent nearly every weekend minimalist camping in the woods, if I wanted to I could go out as I am now and find myself supper, does that mean I ever expect to use these skills in a situation these people are outlining? No.

 

[Evo]

Bill, thank you, I was hoping we could get a dialogue going to understand your side and maybe we could answer questions on the scientific side.

My daughter is terrified of storms and tornadoes, we live in tornado alley. I no longer have a basement, so she's prepared my inner bathroom to do as much as possible to keep me alive. I have fully cooked non perishable foods in bags that can be easily torn open, water, candles, waterproof flashlight, kitchen matches, a lighter, a knife, an ax, kleenex, one of those annoying air horns so I can call for help if I am too weak to talk, a hammer, a crowbar, my meds, a first aid kit.

 

[bill1064]

That's been my question all along, should people be allowed to do this to small children? I never said take their children away, but someone needs to intervene on behalf of the kids. It's so sad. Especially when it's avoidable and there is no reason for it. Do we tell a child every time that they get into a car that they may die a horrible death?

You start this thread calling it child abuse. Sounds like the first step towards snatching them to me.

If every time someone sees a parent treating his child in a way they don't approve of the child was taken away we wouldn't be able to build enough orphanages to hold them.

I think it borders on child abuse to allow a child to grow up without fire arms training. I'm betting if that were the official definition, your kids would have been taken years ago.

So who gets to decide?

 

[Evo]

No, but not the best analogy. Telling them about the likelihood of a car crash does not help them prepare for it and hone their skills to deal with it, which is the principle of what these preppers are trying to do, even if they do have a skewed idea of what's going to happen next Christmas.

So, we should be putting them into hazmat suits when they go in the car because of the potential danger.

 

[Evo]

You start this thread calling it child abuse. Sounds like the first step towards snatching them to me.

If every time someone sees a parent treating his child in a way they don't approve of the child was taken away we wouldn't be able to build enough orphanages to hold them.

I think it borders on child abuse to allow a child to grow up without fire arms training. I'm betting if that were the official definition, your kids would have been taken years ago.

So who gets to decide?

The majority rules. And if the majority is insane, then I move.

 

[DaveC426913]

Isn't it common place for parents to teach kids how to stop, drop and roll, and/or practice getting out of your house in the case of a fire? Don't we teach them how to deal with strangers they don't know? How to memorize their address and parents names? Why drugs are bad for them (often showing burned out or stoned people to really drive the point home)Practicing for nuclear fallout used to be VERY common in the US.

Because fires, strangers, getting lost, drug use and nuclear attack are/were realistic scenarios with a high likelihood of occurring.

Why is it that NOW that practice makes a parrent unsuited to raise his/her children, in your view?!

Because Mayans successfully predicting the end of the world is an unrealistic scenario with a low likelihood of occurring.


That is pretty much the issue in a nutshell, and (should be) the last word on the subject.

 

[bill1064]

Reading this thread makes me wonder, what happens when you run out of food and the world is still in chaos? Why not just learn to survive in a wilderness situation than horde food?

Because there's not enough wilderness to go around. The only thing that allows the planet to support the billions of people on it are commercial factory farming practices.

I am working towards having a couple of years of food stores. And in about a month I am moving to a new job where I can buy a little farm. Not because of doomsday, but because I grew up in that lifestyle and because I like it. But if doomsday ever happens I expect I will be better off there.

 

[bill1064]

Bill, thank you, I was hoping we could get a dialogue going to understand your side and maybe we could answer questions on the scientific side.

My daughter is terrified of storms and tornadoes, we live in tornado alley. I no longer have a basement, so she's prepared my inner bathroom to do as much as possible to keep me alive. I have fully cooked non perishable foods in bags that can be easily torn open, water, candles, waterproof flashlight, kitchen matches, a lighter, a knife, an ax, kleenex, one of those annoying air horns so I can call for help if I am too weak to talk, a hammer, a crowbar, my meds, a first aid kit.

OH MY GOD! Your one of those nut case Preppers. :)

You do need to add a camp stove to heat the water for your freeze dried meals.

 

[Evo]

OH MY GOD! Your one of those nut case Preppers. :)

You do need to add a camp stove to heat the water for your freeze dried meals.

No, these are fully cooked and hydrated and need no water or anything, you can warm them, but they're fine eaten cold. Obviously if I am trapped next to a toilet buried under debris, I'm not going to be able to set up a stove or do food prep. My daughter thought of everything.

At my old house I had a narrow hallway of concrete that was my go to place. There I had a camp stove, sterno, canned foods etc... since i moved to an apartment, I've had to rethink what i can do trapped in a very tight space. If I am lucky enough to be trapped and not blown out.

I am trying to get people together to demand that apartment complexes here in tornado alley have a tornado shelter. Right now, there is no place to go if a tornado is coming.

 

[bill1064]

The majority rules. And if the majority is insane, then I move.

LOL! If I lived by that rule I'd have to find a new planet to live on.

 

[ideasrule]

I recently got into a very heated conversation on the topic of Prepping, with my best friend. He is more interested in buying new computer hardware than building up even a minimal emergency stockpile for his family. I'm in IT and love my new video cards and CPU's but my wife and toddler mean much more to me than any of that.

I don't know whether you're talking about disasters in general or doomsday in particular, so I'm going to respond generically. You can stockpile your years' worth of food, and I can buy video cards and CPU's. I'm willing to take the risk. I simply don't think the risk of a disaster that strikes without any warning, that leaves all food supplies inaccessible, and that prevents me from leaving the city is high enough to warrant stockpiling months of food. Considering that I have a 100% chance of dying, preparing for an event that has a 1 in 1000 chance of happening in my lifetime doesn't sound appealing.

Also, nobody has yet addressed the point I made earlier. You're much more likely to die of heart disease or a car crash than due to whatever you're stockpiling for. Are you donating your money towards heart disease research? Are you customizing your car to make it safer? If not, why not?

If my food, water and other emergency essentials don't ever get used, what harm was there in having it? NONE.

The money you wasted, the time you spent, the 500 square meters you've taken up...Heck, with events as unlikely as the apocalypse, even the risk of the stockpiled food falling and hurting you is non-negligible. By the way, what you do recommend to people living in studio apartments, or even worse, college dorms?

 

[turbo]

My wife and I are probably more prepared than most "preppers", but not because we fear the worst. My parents lived through the Great Depression and their families did OK with little or no money because they knew how to grow, gather, and store food. I picked up those tendencies. Our garden is pretty large for two people, and I preserve, can, or freeze as much food as I can put away. Look in our pantry and there are jar after jar of canned green beans, cucumber pickles, tomato/pepper salsa, etc. Dry foods like beans, rice, pasta, bulgar wheat, etc, are much cheaper in bulk at the health food store than at the supermarket, so we've got lots of those, too, as well as lots of canned foods that came on sale for some reason. The center section of my big grill can be fired with wood, as well as the side-smoker, so we don't need propane or charcoal to cook or smoke our food. I use a lot of salt for making pickles, etc, so I have boxes of that (non-iodized/Kosher salt). I don't have as much salt on-hand as my great aunt always did, but then again, I'm not in the habit of salting down all the fat from 2-3 hogs a year like she did, or making a cask of sauerkraut every year.

 

[DaveC426913]

And Dave, isn't laughing at people who have beliefs different from your a bit low on the bell curve too?

I'm not laughing at anyone; it was not meant as a slight at all.

Sorry, I see your misinterpretation. I was vague.

The bell curve I'm talking about applies to how people react to a given event (of any type). The bulk will act with moderation, a small few will react strongly in favour of the situaiton and a small few will react strongly opposed to a situation. Doomsday preppers are the 1% that are react strongly in favour of the current popularity of the doomsday scenario.

 

[tstrong]

There were 3 doomsday scenarios that the families were preparing for in the NatGeo program, I've only seen 2 addressed here so far.

1. Coronal mass ejection, I personally rate this threat as low probability.

2. Nuclear/EMP event, I also rate this low probability, but I could be wrong, we (the USA) have many malevolent enemies in the world.

3. Hyperinflation, this I consider high probability/near certainty.(timeline unknown)
The government only has 3 ways to raise its money:
1- Tax its people, there is a practical limit to this.
2- Borrow, there are fewer buyers for our T-bills, soon there will be none.
3- Print money, Governments have been doing this for centuries when they cannot pay their bills, our government has printed over 2 TRILLION dollars over just the last 2 years. The risk of hyperinflation is nontrivial.

By the way its not child abuse to teach your family to don Hazmat suits when you live downwind of a nuclear power plant, which is what the first family was doing.

 

[Evo]

By the way its not child abuse to teach your family to don Hazmat suits when you live downwind of a nuclear power plant, which is what the first family was doing.

That family was the coronal mass people.

 

[Ftheog]

That family was the coronal mass people.

true, but they were concerned about it knocking out the cooling to the nuke plant and causing a meltdown, thus the need for the hazmat suits

 

[Evo]

true, but they were concerned about it knocking out the cooling to the nuke plant and causing a meltdown, thus the need for the hazmat suits

So how do you feel about telling children they may have only a year to live, based on an unrealistic fear?

BTW, the CME just happened, earlier than expected. It happened the first week of June.

http://www.space.com/11893-huge-sun-eruption-spectacular-solar-flare.html

Then there's this report that the sun's activity has stopped and we're headed into another maunder minimum.

Scientists predict rare 'hibernation' of sunspots

According to three studies released in the United States on Tuesday, experts believe the familiar sunspot cycle may be shutting down and heading toward a pattern of inactivity unseen since the 17th century.

The signs include a missing jet stream, fading spots, and slower activity near the poles, said experts from the National Solar Observatory and Air Force Research Laboratory.

http://old.news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20110614/ts_afp/usspacesun

Then a few days later NASA comes out saying that thanks to a new technology, they've looked underneath the exterior of the sun and found some activity.

I'll look that up. Edit: hmmm, the NASA comment was from 2009 responding to the 2008-2009 solar decrease.

 

[Ftheog]

I don't remember them telling the kids they only had a year to live, I remember the parents making a game out of it "who's the little elephant?" son being able to fish in his backyard, taking responsibility for the chickens ect

 

[swishAL]

Evo, Turbo, DaveC4, and others... as a prepper I really appreciate your opinions on this subject. For the most part I do agree. Along the lines of what Dave was saying you are more likely to be brutally attacked and killed by a 2 week old kitten than some of the scenarios that play out in the "prepping world". What you guys have to understand is that is a small segment of the prepping community. We don't all believe the sky is falling tomorrow, or that bad guys are on every corner just waiting to attack us.

Evo, I completely understand your concern for the children and appreciate that. Just keep in mind it is a TV show and I seriously doubt that family is throwing on their hazmat suits everyday. If they are close to a Nuke Plant think of it as a fire drill if you will. Or in your case a tornado drill. Nothing wrong with having a plan in place. I get the fact that chances of a fire or a tornado are greater than the nuke plant having issues, but if it helps them sleep better at night then go for it. Oh, and having silhouettes as targets is very common when you go to the gun rang and are wanting to learn self defense. I don't remember hearing the part about shooting neighbors in the show. I will have to re-watch that part. As for defending yourself against intruders, I would recommend anyone learn how to do that.

Honestly I am trying to be more like turbo, a little more self sufficient. I do own a few guns as I'm sure he does. Out here in the sticks we learn to hunt and fish at a early age. It's just part of the culture. I have about a half acre garden this year with another acre of corn. It is just what I like to do.

Sorry to have "invaded" your forum. I really do appreciate all your opinions and love to look at each side of the coin.

 

[Willowz]

Into the bunkers.

 

[Evo]

Evo, Turbo, DaveC4, and others... as a prepper I really appreciate your opinions on this subject. For the most part I do agree. Along the lines of what Dave was saying you are more likely to be brutally attacked and killed by a 2 week old kitten than some of the scenarios that play out in the "prepping world". What you guys have to understand is that is a small segment of the prepping community. We don't all believe the sky is falling tomorrow, or that bad guys are on every corner just waiting to attack us.

Evo, I completely understand your concern for the children and appreciate that. Just keep in mind it is a TV show and I seriously doubt that family is throwing on their hazmat suits everyday. If they are close to a Nuke Plant think of it as a fire drill if you will. Or in your case a tornado drill. Nothing wrong with having a plan in place. I get the fact that chances of a fire or a tornado are greater than the nuke plant having issues, but if it helps them sleep better at night then go for it. Oh, and having silhouettes as targets is very common when you go to the gun rang and are wanting to learn self defense. I don't remember hearing the part about shooting neighbors in the show. I will have to re-watch that part. As for defending yourself against intruders, I would recommend anyone learn how to do that.

Honestly I am trying to be more like turbo, a little more self sufficient. I do own a few guns as I'm sure he does. Out here in the sticks we learn to hunt and fish at a early age. It's just part of the culture. I have about a half acre garden this year with another acre of corn. It is just what I like to do.

Sorry to have "invaded" your forum. I really do appreciate all your opinions and love to look at each side of the coin.

Hi swish, welcome to our forum. A large part of my concern was how Nat Geo put the Doomsday spin on it. Of course, the name was "Doomsday preppers". You can see from the web page they put the show on, it was with all of the crackpot end of the world shows. Like I said, there is no telling how many people they scared, and what that could mean. There was the toast that was made to the effect of "to our last year on earth", and the other mom that said they live expecting armageddon.

I've always gardened myself and my wish has always been to live on a farm. I have relatives with farms. You will find that we have many self sufficient members here. One of them is raising my chicken for me, because I can't have chickens here.

And you could be right, Nat Geo, although they swear they only showed what these people did everyday, I'm sure there was creative editing making them look like lunatics. I'm furious that Nat Geo would air something like this.

Is also nice to hear from people that are saying that the doomsday cults aren't part of real "preppers", that they consider themselves more self sufficient like turbo and it's not done out of misguided fear.