Drag Forces and Terminal Velocity

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the concepts of drag forces and terminal velocity, particularly in the context of Newton's second law. Participants are examining the relationship between mass and terminal velocity, as well as the correct application of force equations.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the implications of increasing mass on terminal velocity, with some asserting that terminal velocity is inversely proportional to mass. Others discuss the correct application of Newton's second law and the importance of sign conventions in force equations.

Discussion Status

There is an active exchange of ideas, with some participants providing clarifications and alternative perspectives on the original poster's assertions. The discussion highlights differing interpretations of the teacher's feedback and the underlying physics concepts.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the potential confusion arising from the teacher's statements regarding the direction of forces and the application of sign conventions. There is also mention of external pressures, such as upcoming exams and homework loads, which may affect participants' reasoning.

rosedog09
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Homework Statement
3. Describe how the mass of an object changes the terminal velocity of that object when falling.

5. A 79 kg Skydiver opens up her parachute and instantly decelerates at 8 m/s^2. Determine the Force of Air Resistance for this situation!
Relevant Equations
F = ma
Teacher says Im wrong on both these questions. I have consulted with other teachers and they say im correct. What do you guys think?


3. As mass increases, so does terminal velocity.

5. Fnet = FDrag - Fg
ma = FDrag - mg
FDrag = 79(8) + 79(10)
FDrag = 632 + 790 = 1422 N


1714091313666.png


Teacher Comments

5 and 3 are incorrect

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Teacher Clarification (Email)

5.2A #5.jpg


My Response :
DSC_1363-1.JPG


Teacher Further Response
1714091510482.png
 
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You are correct. Your teacher seems to be confused about how Newton's second law works. From the diagram in the email and using the convention that "up" is positive, the net force is
##F_{net}=F_D-mg=F_D-79~(\text{kg})\times 9.8~(\text{m/s})^2.##
Mass times acceleration is positive (up)
##ma=79~(\text{kg})\times 8~(\text{m/s})^2.##
Newton's second law is
##F_{net}=ma##
Substitute
##F_D-79~(\text{kg})\times 9.8~(\text{m/s})^2=79~(\text{kg})\times 8~(\text{m/s})^2\implies F_D=79~(\text{kg})\times (8+9.8)~(\text{m/s})^2.##
 
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On 3 you are incorrect correct. The terminal velocity ( asymptotically approached velocity for which ##\dot v =0## from Newtons Second) is inversely proportional to the mass or square root of it ##( F_D \propto v^2)##
 
Last edited:
erobz said:
On 3 you are incorrect. The terminal velocity ( asymptotically approached velocity for which ##\dot v =0## from Newtons Second) is inversely proportional to the mass or square root of it ##( F_D \propto v^2)##
1714095473085.png
 
rosedog09 said:

My bad, you’re right. (Lesson for me) Don’t do mental manipulations on low sleep! Sorry.
 
erobz said:
My bad, you’re right. (Lesson for me) Don’t do mental manipulations on low sleep! Sorry.
All good. I can relate atm. All my AP exams are coming up and that doesn't stop my teachers from assigning lots of homework, so lots of late nights.
 
rosedog09 said:
All good. I can relate atm. All my AP exams are coming up and that doesn't stop my teachers from assigning lots of homework, so lots of late nights.
I wish my sleepless nights were by choice. Good luck on the exams.
 
To put @kuruman's explanation in a form that might be closer to the teacher's thinking…

##ma=F_{net}=F_D+F_g##
is correct provided all forces and accelerations will be filled in using the same sign convention .
##F_g=mg ## implies the sign convention is positive down (since g is always taken as a magnitude, so positive).
With that convention, ##a=-8ms^{-2}##.
##F_D=-mg+ma=m(-10-8)ms^{-2}##.
But again, that is positive down, so the upward drag force is
##m(10+8)ms^{-2}##.

Moral: always state your sign conventions and check you have adhered to them.
 
haruspex said:
Moral: always state your sign conventions and check you have adhered to them.
I think that adherence to the sign convention is not the teacher's problem here but unrecognized self-contradiction is.
Teacher says
"There is an upward Force and a downward Force."
Furthermore, the diagram in the teacher's email shows the drag and weight forces in opposite directions. This is all true and correct.

Then in the next sentence the teacher says
"Drag Force and Force Weight act opposite the Force caused by the upward acceleration."
Whatever the direction of this so called force caused by the upward acceleration, the second statement implicitly contradicts the first by asserting that drag and weight act opposite to this force, i.e. drag and weight act in the same direction.

The sign convention whether "up" is positive or negative never enters the picture.
 
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