ΔU, Q, W of thermodynamic process

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a thermodynamic process involving a monatomic ideal gas, specifically analyzing the values of ΔU, Q, and W as depicted in a PV diagram. Participants are exploring the relationships between these thermodynamic quantities and their signs based on the process described.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to determine the signs of ΔU, Q, and W based on the changes in pressure and volume. Some participants question the correctness of the original poster's reasoning and suggest alternative methods to analyze Q from the graph.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants providing feedback on the original poster's reasoning. Some guidance has been offered regarding the drawing of adiabats and the interpretation of work in different contexts, indicating a productive exploration of the topic.

Contextual Notes

There is a mention of different conventions for defining work (W) between physicists and chemists, which may affect the interpretation of the results. The original poster also expresses uncertainty about their calculations and seeks confirmation.

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Homework Statement


A monatomic ideal gas undergoes the thermodynamic process shown in the PV diagram. Determine whether each of the values ΔU, Q, and W for the gas is positive, negative, or zero.
upload_2016-11-3_7-41-47.png

Homework Equations


ΔU=Q-W
W=integral under the curve
PV=nRT T=PV/nR

The Attempt at a Solution


direction is negative then the integral negative then work is negative
ΔU depends on change in temp, and here pressure increases and volume decreases so it was Ti=P0x2V0/nR and at final it becomes Tf=2P0xV0/nR Tf=Ti then it stays the same no change in temp then ΔU =0
therefore 0=Q-W Q=W but W negative then Q also negative
Is that correct? I need only to check my answer...
and is there any other way to determine Q from Graph (without looking at W or ΔU) ?
 
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Any Help said:
Is that correct? I need only to check my answer...
Yes.

Any Help said:
and is there any other way to determine Q from Graph (without looking at W or ΔU) ?
You could draw adiabats, one passing through point ##2V_0,P_0## and one through point ##V_0,2P_0##, and see if you are going closer to the origin (##Q<0##) or farther away from the origin (##Q>0##), but it is easier to calculate it as you did.
 
DrClaude said:
draw adiabats
how we draw them? do you mean to draw hyperbolas passing through them?
 
I mean that you draw the curves ##P = V^{-\gamma}## that pass through the given points.
 
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Careful with how W is defined. Physicists usually take W as the work done BY the gas, which is what you did & that's correct.

But chemists often (or usually?) take W as the work done ON the gas in which case your W would be positive and the 1st law would read ΔU = Q + W.
 
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