Earth's velocity wrt CMB gives the centre of the universe?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the implications of Earth's velocity with respect to the cosmic microwave background (CMB) and its relation to the concept of a center of the universe. Participants explore the nature of space expansion, the significance of Earth's motion, and the interpretation of CMB observations in the context of cosmological principles.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Alan Guth's lectures suggest that to accurately apply Hubble's law, one must account for Earth's velocity relative to the CMB.
  • Some participants question why Earth moves with respect to the CMB if space is expanding uniformly.
  • There is a proposal that if Earth has a velocity with respect to the CMB, it implies a special point could be considered the center of the universe.
  • One participant argues against the notion of a center, stating that local variations in motion do not imply a central point in the universe.
  • Another participant explains that moving with respect to an isotropic background results in observable redshift and blueshift, which supports the isotropy of the CMB.
  • It is noted that galaxies receding from Earth also perceive themselves as nearly at rest with respect to the CMB, suggesting no significant difference in CMB measurements across the sky.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the implications of Earth's velocity with respect to the CMB. While some argue that this velocity indicates a center of the universe, others firmly reject this idea, maintaining that the universe is isotropic and homogeneous without a center.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights assumptions about uniform expansion and the interpretation of CMB data, which remain unresolved. The relationship between local motion and cosmological principles is also a point of contention.

Happiness
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Alan Guth mentioned in his lectures that to get the accurate linear relationship of Hubble's law, we need to subtract the velocity of the Earth with respect to the cosmic microwave background (CMB) when calculating the velocity of galaxies.

Question 1:
If space is expanding uniformly throughout, why does the Earth move with respect to CMB?

Question 2:
If the Earth is moving at a velocity with respect to CMB, then doesn't this mean there is a special point that we can consider the centre of the universe? Divide the Earth's velocity by the Hubble's parameter, we will get a displacement vector, which is the vector that points from the centre of the universe to the Earth. Doesn't this contradict the assumption that the universe has no centre?

Guth's lecture:
 
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Happiness said:
If space is expanding uniformly throughout, why does the Earth move with respect to CMB?

Because Earth is not at rest with respect to the comoving coordinates. There is going to be local variations just as there are local variations of velocities in a fluid.

Happiness said:
If the Earth is moving at a velocity with respect to CMB, then doesn't this mean there is a special point that we can consider the centre of the universe?
No. Definitely not. There is simply no logic in this statement.
 
If you are moving with respect to an isotropic backround, you see something very specific, a blue shift in one direction and red shift in the opposite one, and once you correct for this (assuming this is due to proper motion), you recover the isotropic background - nothing of the sort will show up if the background isn't isotropic.
So the CMB observations provide both a measure of Earth's motion relative to the background, and the evidence that this background is isotropic.

And large scale homogeneity with no center is the simplest assumption that explains this isotropy.
 
Happiness said:
If the Earth is moving at a velocity with respect to CMB, then doesn't this mean there is a special point that we can consider the centre of the universe?

No, because those galaxies that are receding from us at huge redshifts also see themselves as barely moving with respect to the CMB, just as we see ourselves barely moving with respect to the CMB. By 'barely' I mean that our velocities are a tiny fraction of c relative to a nearby frame that is considered stationary with respect to the CMB. In other words, those galaxies receding from us do NOT measure a huge difference in the CMB between different parts of the sky.
 

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