Effect of EMP on electrons. And other EMP related questions.

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the effects of electromagnetic pulses (EMP) on electrons and electrical devices. Participants explore the nature of EMPs, their impact on electronic circuits, and the mechanisms behind these effects, including comparisons to other electromagnetic phenomena. The conversation touches on theoretical and conceptual aspects of EMPs, as well as anecdotal experiences with electronics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question what happens to electrons in the presence of an EMP field and whether devices like flashlights turn off due to an EMP.
  • There is speculation about whether the battery discharges quickly or if electron flow is disrupted for other reasons.
  • Participants discuss the duration of EMP effects following nuclear explosions, with one noting that EMP effects can last for over 20 minutes.
  • Some participants express confusion about the nature of EMPs and their relationship to other forms of electromagnetic radiation, such as light and x-rays.
  • One participant explains that electromagnetic waves, including EMPs, consist of oscillating electric and magnetic fields that can affect charged particles.
  • Another participant mentions that EMPs can cause short circuits or damage components in electrical equipment, leading to operational failures.
  • There is a suggestion that EMPs might disrupt electron flow by affecting the electromagnetic field around circuits, though the exact mechanisms remain unclear.
  • Participants discuss the idea that high-powered electromagnetic waves can create significant voltages that may damage circuits.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various viewpoints on the nature and effects of EMPs, with no consensus reached on the specific mechanisms or implications of these effects. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the precise relationship between EMPs and other electromagnetic phenomena.

Contextual Notes

Some claims about the duration of EMP effects and the specific conditions under which they operate are not substantiated with detailed explanations or references, leaving room for further exploration and clarification.

T10
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What exactly happens to electrons in presense of an EMP field?

Say you have a flashlight that is switched on, my general assumption is that if some sort of an EMP device goes off, the flashlight will turn off. Why ? Does the battery get discharged in a fraction of a second? If not, why won't the electrons flow then, when the chain is closed?

On top of that I remember reading a few times from various sources that during Nucular Bomb testing, EMP effect was provailant for more than 20 minutes after the initial explosion. How? Take an electro magnet for example, turn it on, place a paper clip to it, the clip will be held up. Turn the magnet off and the clip will fall, it won't be stuck up for the next half our (Unless of coarse the magnet becomes magnetized).

Or does the EMP effect take so long to disappear because of all the radioactivity still in the air?
 
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I give up. What is EMP? I need it to turn off my flashlight.
 
Meir Achuz said:
I give up. What is EMP? I need it to turn off my flashlight.


electro magnetic pulse
 
Do you know what ordinary light (and radio waves, and x-rays and all other stuff on the EM spectrum) is? It is a packet of energy of the electromagnetic field. An EMP, if you will.
 
masudr said:
Do you know what ordinary light (and radio waves, and x-rays and all other stuff on the EM spectrum) is? It is a packet of energy of the electromagnetic field. An EMP, if you will.


Yes, light, infrared, xrays, gamma etc, all part of the electromagnetic spectrum.

However, last time I shined a flashlight onto a bulb it did not turn off, so what range of the spectrum is the EMP in? What exactly is being emited to distrupt electron flow? And as to the original question, why does electron flow become disrupted? Or if whatever EMP is, if it is in the high energy spectrum, do such effects happen with all the high energy rays? (Last time I got an xray, I am pretty sure my watch still worked hahaha).
 
T10 said:
Yes, light, infrared, xrays, gamma etc, all part of the electromagnetic spectrum.

However, last time I shined a flashlight onto a bulb it did not turn off, so what range of the spectrum is the EMP in? What exactly is being emited to distrupt electron flow? And as to the original question, why does electron flow become disrupted? Or if whatever EMP is, if it is in the high energy spectrum, do such effects happen with all the high energy rays? (Last time I got an xray, I am pretty sure my watch still worked hahaha).

An "Electromagnetic" wave (such as light and other EM radiation), by definition, has both "electric" and "magnetic" fields. These fields oscillate in space and time. Since charge particles are affected by electric AND magnetic fields, it stands to reason that EM radiation will affect charged particles. And it does! A high-powered laser shot through a plasma can cause a "wake" especially in the "blow-out" region. This is a unique technique in an accelerating scheme[1]. We also use RF fields as accelerating fields in waveguides and LINAC, which is the most common method used in particle accelerators.

Zz.

[1] http://accelconf.web.cern.ch/AccelConf/e96/PAPERS/ORALS/FRX03A.PDF
 
An EMP due either to lightning or a power company accident can cause a short circuit in electrical equipment or burn out a connection or damage a component, anyone of which could stop operation, temporarily or permanently. Teller's idea was to use an EMP from a modified hydrogen bomb to destroy a missile, but I can go into that.
 
Thanks ZapperZ, I did have the general understanding of how particle accelerators worked (akin to maglev trains and so forth), but since you did mention it, trying to put the two together, in the very basic general assumption, an emp would "magnetically" grab onto the electrons moving in the circuit, and disrupt the flow? Or would the electrons still flow just fine, and the EMP would just mess up the EM field running on the outer surface of the wire/circuit board path/whatever? Most likelly both at the same time :-p

Come to think of it, that makes sense. :smile:

Thanks!
 
However, last time I shined a flashlight onto a bulb it did not turn off, so what range of the spectrum is the EMP in?

If your flashlight was powerful enough, then the light it was emitting would short circuit any electronics through which it passed.

What exactly is being emited to distrupt electron flow?

Enormous electric and magnetic fields. These fields propagate outwards as a wave pulse. If the electric field is strong enough, it creates an appreciable voltage in the circuit, damaging it.

Light and radiation are electromagnetics wave-pulses, and above a certain level of power they are strong enough to destroy circuits. The term "EMP" seems to be reserved for these high-powered, destructive wave-pulses.
 
  • #10
Crosson said:
Enormous electric and magnetic fields. These fields propagate outwards as a wave pulse. If the electric field is strong enough, it creates an appreciable voltage in the circuit, damaging it.

That is exactly what I was looking for, thank you.
 
  • #11
T10 said:
On top of that I remember reading a few times from various sources that during Nucular Bomb testing, EMP effect was provailant for more than 20 minutes after the initial explosion.

I am very curious aboot EMP's in general, where did you here that the effect may last for ~20 minutes or so?
 

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