Einstein needs to show his work

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    Einstein Work
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the derivation of the Lorentz transformation as presented in Einstein's book on relativity. Participants are attempting to follow and understand the steps involved in the derivation, particularly focusing on the elimination of time from the equations and the algebraic manipulations required to arrive at the final form of the transformation equations.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses difficulty in following Einstein's derivation, particularly in eliminating time from the equations.
  • Another participant suggests solving for time in one of the equations and substituting it into the other to proceed with the derivation.
  • A participant shares their intermediate results and attempts to simplify the equations, indicating confusion about algebraic reductions.
  • There are exchanges about specific algebraic steps, with participants questioning and clarifying each other's work.
  • One participant reflects on their algebra skills and expresses frustration over not being able to simplify the expression correctly.
  • Several participants provide hints about algebraic rules that could help in reducing the expressions, emphasizing the importance of separating terms in fractions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

While participants are collaboratively working through the derivation, there is no consensus on the specific algebraic steps at various points, leading to some confusion and differing interpretations of the simplifications required.

Contextual Notes

Participants are navigating through complex algebraic manipulations, and there are indications of potential misunderstandings regarding algebraic rules and simplifications. The discussion highlights the challenges of following mathematical derivations without explicit steps provided.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for individuals interested in the mathematical foundations of relativity, particularly those seeking to understand the derivation of the Lorentz transformation and the associated algebraic techniques.

rhenretta
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I'm reading Einstein's book on relativity (aptly named Relativity), and trying to follow his "simple" derivation of the Lorentz transformation in Appendix 1. However, since Einstein feels it acceptable to skip over important steps, it leaves me to figure them out, but I am lost on one step...

The relevant equations are as follows (keeping the equation numbers consistent with his)

Eq 5:
[tex]x' = ax - bct[/tex]

[tex]ct' = act - bx[/tex]

Eq 6:
[tex]v=\frac{bc}{a}[/tex]

He claims:
But if the snapshot is taken from K'(t'=0), and if we eliminate t from the equations (5), taking into account the expression (6) we obtain:

[tex]x' = a(1-\frac{v^2}{c^2})x[/tex]

I tried following the steps expressed:

First, substituting t'=0 into (5):

[tex]x' = ax - bct[/tex]

[tex]0 = act - bx[/tex]

Now, to eliminate t, I can only see to do this with equation 6 since

[tex]v = \frac{x}{t}[/tex]

[tex]t = \frac{x}{v}[/tex]

This leaves me with:

[tex]x' = ax - bc\frac{x}{v}[/tex]

[tex]0 = ac\frac{x}{v} - bx[/tex]

It is at this point I am at a loss where to go next to obtain his result.
 
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rhenretta said:
[tex]0 = act - bx[/tex]

Solve for [itex]t[/itex] in the above, stick the result in the [itex]x'[/itex] equation of (5), and then use (6).
 
Following that, I get:

[tex]t=\frac{bx}{ac}[/tex]

Substituting in eq 5 (and reducing for simplicity - ironic I am not showing my work):

[tex]x' = x(a-\frac{b^2}{a})[/tex]

I'm trying to use eq 6 by solving it for b:

[tex]b = \frac{av}{c}[/tex]

substituting b:

[tex]x' = x(a-\frac{( \frac{av}{c})^2}{a})[/tex]

Do a little reduction: (bear with me, doing the work via the forums)
[tex]x' = x(a (\frac{a}{a}) -\frac{( \frac{av}{c})^2}{a})[/tex]

[tex]x' = x(\frac{a^2}{a} -\frac{( \frac{av}{c})^2}{a})[/tex]

[tex]x' = x(\frac{\frac{a^2v^2}{c^2} - a^2}{a})[/tex]

[tex]x' = x(\frac{\frac{a^2v^2}{c^2} - a^2 * \frac{c^2}{c^2}}{a})[/tex]

[tex]x' = x(\frac{\frac{a^2v^2}{c^2} - \frac{a^2c^2}{c^2}}{a})[/tex]

[tex]x' = x(\frac{\frac{a^2v^2 - a^2c^2}{c^2}}{a})[/tex]

[tex]x' = x(\frac{\frac{a^2(v^2 - c^2)}{c^2}}{a})[/tex]

[tex]x' = x(\frac{a^2(v^2 - c^2)}{c^2} * \frac{1}{a})[/tex]

[tex]x' = x(\frac{a(v^2 - c^2)}{c^2})[/tex]

[tex]x' = a(\frac{v^2 - c^2}{c^2})x[/tex]

Getting close, but here is why my algebra skills fail me. How does this reduce down to:

[tex]x' = a(1-\frac{v^2}{c^2})x[/tex]
 
Last edited:
Note, I fixed my math above (I think), though since I reused my last post it could be cached. Shift-F5 will fix that (or ctl f5, or shift refresh, or whatever that keystroke is)
 
Last edited:
How did you go from
rhenretta said:
[tex]x' = x(\frac{a^2}{a} -\frac{( \frac{av}{c})^2}{a})[/tex]

to
rhenretta said:
[tex]x' = x(\frac{\frac{a^2v^2}{c^2} - a^2}{a})[/tex]
 
crap, I even double checked my work before submitting...

[tex]x' = (\frac{a^2 - \frac{a^2v^2}{c^2}}{a})x[/tex]

[tex]x' = (\frac{a^2 * \frac{c^2}{c^2} - \frac{a^2v^2}{c^2}}{a})x[/tex]

[tex]x' = (\frac{\frac{a^2c^2}{c^2} - \frac{a^2v^2}{c^2}}{a})x[/tex]

[tex]x' = (\frac{\frac{a^2(c^2 - v^2)}{c^2}}{a})x[/tex]

[tex]x' = (\frac{a^2(c^2 - v^2)}{c^2} * \frac{1}{a})x[/tex]

[tex]x' = (\frac{a(c^2 - v^2)}{c^2})x[/tex]

[tex]x' = a(\frac{c^2 - v^2}{c^2})x[/tex]

I feel sufficiently stupid now, especially since I must be forgetting a reduction rule in algebra still. I don't see how that reduces down farther.
 
rhenretta said:
[tex]x' = a(\frac{c^2 - v^2}{c^2})x[/tex]

I feel sufficiently stupid now, especially since I must be forgetting a reduction rule in algebra still. I don't see show that reduces down farther.
The reduction rule you're missing is just that [tex]\frac{x + y}{z} = \frac{x}{z} + \frac{y}{z}[/tex]. Apply that to the fraction in your equation above and you get Einstein's equation.
 
rhenretta said:
[tex]x' = a(\frac{c^2 - v^2}{c^2})x[/tex]

I feel sufficiently stupid now, especially since I must be forgetting a reduction rule in algebra still. I don't see how that reduces down farther.

Anyone can forget things unless you were being sarcastic.
[tex]x' = a(\frac{c^2}{c^2} - \frac{v^2}{c^2})x[/tex]

[tex]x' = a(1 - \frac{v^2}{c^2})x[/tex]
 
rhenretta said:
[tex]x' = a(\frac{c^2 - v^2}{c^2})x[/tex]

I feel sufficiently stupid now, especially since I must be forgetting a reduction rule in algebra still. I don't see how that reduces down farther.
Just separate the terms in that fraction, dividing each term in the numerator by the denominator. In general:

[tex]\frac{a + b}{c} = \frac{a}{c} + \frac{b}{c}[/tex]
 
  • #10
oh, of course, thank you all of you. And, no I was not being sarcastic, I am tough on myself. Expecting perfection is the only way to achieve it.
 

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