Electric Arc Lighter: Solving Transformer Overcurrent Issues

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the challenges faced in designing an electric arc lighter powered by a 3.7V LiPo battery and a 25kV transformer. Participants explore issues related to overcurrent protection triggering due to spikes from the transformer, safety concerns, and alternative ignition methods for a jet-powered RC plane using a mixture of liquid butane and methanol.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Exploratory
  • Experimental/applied

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes the setup involving a 3.7V LiPo battery, a TP4056 charging module, and a 25kV transformer, highlighting issues with overcurrent protection due to transformer spikes.
  • Another participant expresses safety concerns about the use of a 25kV transformer, suggesting that the project may be too dangerous and advising against bypassing safety features.
  • Some participants question the necessity of the 25kV transformer, arguing that it may be impractical and dangerous for the intended application.
  • Alternative ignition methods are proposed, including the use of laser diodes and motorcycle ignition systems, with discussions on their feasibility and weight considerations for the RC plane.
  • Concerns are raised about the use of glow plugs, with one participant noting issues with overheating and power consumption from a glow plug used in a Volkswagen Golf.
  • Another participant suggests using exposed filament glow plugs designed for model airplane engines, emphasizing the importance of positioning in the combustion chamber.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally express disagreement regarding the use of a 25kV transformer, with many advocating for safer alternatives. There is no consensus on the best ignition method, as various options are discussed with differing opinions on their practicality and safety.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the need for clear design specifications and intent before offering solutions, indicating that the discussion is complex and requires careful consideration of safety and functionality.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to hobbyists and engineers involved in DIY electronics, particularly those working on ignition systems for model aircraft or similar applications.

lukakopa7
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Hi. I am making an electric lighter which uses 3.7v LiPo battery(600mah), TP4056 battery protection (short circuit, overcurrent(3 Amp)) charging module, switch and 25kV transformer. The problem is that transformer has spikes that are over 3 amps and overcurrent protection gets triggered. I could bypass protection features but transformer works till batteries are discharged way to low(2.3V). Any ideas?
 
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So... You have a 25kV transformer that can draws 3A at 3.7V (~10W) and your asking about bypassing "protection features" so that you can ignite things?

I feel safe to say that there is zero chance we will want to help you do that. Anyway, not me at least.

Some projects fall into that category "if you have to ask for help, your not qualified to do it." Please be careful.

PS: you might review the PF rules about dangerous things.
 
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If this is for a sealed BBQ lighter? Please define your design specs rather than a general description of some parts and failures with a part you may not need.

What other inputs besides 600 mAh LiPo?

What output do you need? Estimate longevity or number of uses or ignition arcs
 
lukakopa7 said:
25kV transformer
Drop that.
By the time you transform 3.6V to some high voltage like that it's not just dangerous, but practically useless in this kind of function.
 
Rive said:
Drop that.
By the time you transform 3.6V to some high voltage like that it's not just dangerous, but practically useless in this kind of function.
Not necessarily. A step-up auto-transformer used in flyback mode keeps low voltage on a button switch and high voltage on the arc. The trick is to choose the inductance and Rs on the primary to limit the current. The breakdown voltages and gap must break the holding current so it does not persist when released. The 25kV means it can generate at least an arc of 25 mm under humid conditions of 1 kV/mm. Winding capacitance and high permeability cores can degrade the voltage, so often air coils are used in furnace gas igniters.

no solution is possible without goals and eng specs.
 
DaveE said:
I feel safe to say that there is zero chance we will want to help you do that.
Humm... guess I not a smart as I thought.
 
TonyStewart said:
Not necessarily.
If a '25kV transformer' pops up in these kind of suicidal type DIY projects then it's most likely some tesla coil or a salvaged piece of hardware from an old TV set => both are useless and just dangerous.

So: indeed not 'necessarily', but in case of staying case-relevant it's around 99.9%.

DaveE said:
Humm... guess I not a smart as I thought.
Well, as long as that 25kV stays, I sure won't provide anything but solid 'don't do that' o0)
If the OP reconsiders then we'll see.
 
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It's good to warn on safety but a 600 mAh battery is hardly a good source for a defibrillator but can be painful. But I'm sure some could make it lethal. I prefer not to assume the IQ of the writers.
 
TonyStewart said:
I prefer not to assume the IQ of the writers.
It's about all the readers.
 
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  • #10
Reminds me of Grade 10 electrical shop. My partner asked teacher, "can I touch this? "Yes" ... Oww.. "You said can.. not should." As a rule I propose we should never offer advice or solutions to DIY or design questions until "intent" and "design specs" or "acceptance criteria with all in & outs " exist in the original question.
 
  • #11
TonyStewart said:
If this is for a sealed BBQ lighter? Please define your design specs rather than a general description of some parts and failures with a part you may not need.

What other inputs besides 600 mAh LiPo?

What output do you need? Estimate longevity or number of uses or ignition arcs

TonyStewart said:
If this is for a sealed BBQ lighter? Please define your design specs rather than a general description of some parts and failures with a part you may not need.

What other inputs besides 600 mAh LiPo?

What output do you need? Estimate longevity or number of uses or ignition arcs
Hi. I m building jet powered rc plane and i need source of constant ignition.
 
  • #12
lukakopa7 said:
The problem is that transformer has spikes that are over 3 amps and overcurrent protection gets triggered.
Welcome to PF.

What are you trying to ignite?
Maybe you could use a particular wavelength IR laser diode to ignite a gas.
 
  • #13
lukakopa7 said:
I m building jet powered rc plane and i need source of constant ignition.
I would look for motorcycle ignition systems, then: with the high voltage parts intact and untouched, safe.
 
  • #14
Baluncore said:
Welcome to PF.

What are you trying to ignite?
Maybe you could use a particular wavelength IR laser diode to ignite a gas.
Im using mixture of liquid butane and methanol. Yeah but device has to be small and light.
 
  • #15
Rive said:
I would look for motorcycle ignition systems, then: with the high voltage parts intact and untouched, safe.
Yes but it is much heavier.
 
  • #16
lukakopa7 said:
Yes but it is much heavier.
Then a mower, chainshaw or such.
Are you sure that the classic glow plug igniters used on RC models can't do the trick?
 
  • #17
lukakopa7 said:
Im using mixture of liquid butane and methanol. Yeah but device has to be small and light.
Laser diodes are small and could produce a wavelength that would be strongly absorbed by the fuel, resulting in ignition.

Have you considered a glow plug in a combustion chamber, one that remains hot once the engine is running.
 
  • #18
Baluncore said:
Laser diodes are small and could produce a wavelength that would be strongly absorbed by the fuel, resulting in ignition.

Have you considered a glow plug in a combustion chamber, one that remains hot once the engine is running.
I already tried glow plug from old Volkswagen golf but it uses much more power and when it got hot it melted all cables.
 
  • #19
Rive said:
Then a mower, chainshaw or such.
Are you sure that the classic glow plug igniters used on RC models can't do the trick?
I already tried glow plug from old Volkswagen golf but it uses much more power and when it got hot it melted all cables. I already tried smaller glow plugs but it does not stay at the temperature of ignition because of the cold fuel.
 
  • #20
lukakopa7 said:
I already tried glow plug from old Volkswagen golf ...
I recommend an exposed filament glow plug, as used for model airplane engines, not a glow plug from a diesel engine motor vehicle.
Search eBay 'glow plug igniter'
or 'Glow Plug Standard OS No.8'
Position in the combustion chamber is everything.
 
  • #21
Thread closed temporarily for Mentor review...
 
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  • #22
lukakopa7 said:
switch and 25kV transformer.
While some of us here at PF have done professional designs at that HV level, most have not. And as noted earlier, we need to be careful about folks who come along later and read these kinds of therad. This thread falls under the "dangerous discussion" prohibition in the PF rules, so will remain closed.
 
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