Electromagnetic Force: Where Does Virtual Photon Get Its Energy?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of virtual photons in the context of electromagnetic interactions between electrons and protons. Participants explore the source of energy for virtual photons, the implications of their existence, and the conservation of energy in these interactions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the source of energy (∆E) for virtual photons exchanged between an electron and a proton, wondering if it comes from one of the particles and whether that would affect their energy.
  • Another participant describes the process of virtual photon exchange using Feynman diagrams, indicating that both emission and absorption occur continuously for electrons.
  • A concern is raised that if electrons emit many virtual photons due to interactions with numerous protons, their energy would decrease significantly, leading to a paradox of energy vanishing.
  • In response, a participant asserts that total energy is conserved in these interactions, emphasizing that momentum and energy conservation are imposed in the diagrams used to describe these processes.
  • There is a distinction made between virtual particles and spontaneous pair creation from the vacuum, suggesting that the two concepts should not be conflated.
  • Another participant points out that interactions do not necessarily occur with certainty, introducing the idea of probability in quantum processes.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of virtual photon exchange and the conservation of energy, with no consensus reached on the source of energy for virtual photons or the consequences of their interactions.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the philosophical implications of virtual particles and the complexities involved in understanding their existence and role in quantum mechanics. There are unresolved questions regarding the assumptions made about energy transfer and the nature of interactions.

spidey
Messages
213
Reaction score
0
Suppose we take there are one electron and one proton, they attract each other by exchange of virtual photon of energy ∆E and it exists for ∆t. From where virtual photon gets energy ∆E? Is it from electron or proton?if it gets energy from electron or proton, will the energy of electron and proton also change?
There are so many electrons and protons in this universe and every electron and proton interact with every other electron and proton so there are many virtual photons floating here and there in the universe. Is this true? if so then, there would be almost infinite energy going with these virtual photons? from where these virtual photons getting energy?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
There are two diagrams, in one of them the electron emits the photon and proton receives it. In the second the process is opposite. Each diagram contributes to the total process of electron - proton scattering.

Well, yes and no. Virtual particles are tools in perturbation theory, it is hard to tell wheter they exists or not and we must raise the question on a philosophical level on what existence really means. But anyway, in the language of virtual particle exhange, an electron emits and absorbs vritual photons all the time. One feynman diagram is that the electron emits a virtual photon at time t_1 and then absorbs it at latter time t_2. And so on and so on.
 
malawi_glenn said:
There are two diagrams, in one of them the electron emits the photon and proton receives it. In the second the process is opposite. Each diagram contributes to the total process of electron - proton scattering.

Well, yes and no. Virtual particles are tools in perturbation theory, it is hard to tell wheter they exists or not and we must raise the question on a philosophical level on what existence really means. But anyway, in the language of virtual particle exhange, an electron emits and absorbs vritual photons all the time. One feynman diagram is that the electron emits a virtual photon at time t_1 and then absorbs it at latter time t_2. And so on and so on.

So if electron emits virtual photon,then its energy decreases and since there are so many electrons and protons in this universe,hence this electron interacts with all of them and emits many virtual photons for each interaction and so its energy will be decreasing and decreasing and it will vanish..isn't it? this is strange.
 
no in total the energy is conserved. When you construct a diagram, you impose momentum and energy conservation. Then between ingoing and outgoing states, things can happen such as mass off shell particles (the one we call virtual).

You are mixing these things up with "spontaneous" pair creation out of the vacuum, where a pair of particles,antiparticles are excited from the vacuum to again annihilate and thus preserving energy conservation.

Also you think that interaction MUST take place, but there is a probability for a process to occur.

Stop worrying.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 29 ·
Replies
29
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 46 ·
2
Replies
46
Views
6K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K