Electromagnetism and a solid metallic sphere

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the electric field associated with a solid metallic sphere, specifically focusing on the application of Gauss' law and the implications of surface charge density on electric field calculations. Participants are examining the conditions under which the electric field is derived, particularly in relation to conductors.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the conditions for applying Gauss' law, particularly the distinction between cases with a conductor on one side versus free space on both sides. Questions arise regarding the assumptions made in the problem statement and the implications for deriving the electric field.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants questioning the clarity of the problem statement and its implications for the solutions to parts A and C. Some participants express understanding after clarifications, while others highlight the need for more detailed specifications in the problem to avoid confusion.

Contextual Notes

There is a noted oversight in the problem statement regarding the conditions necessary for applying Gauss' law, particularly the lack of explicit mention of the conductor's presence in part A, which affects the interpretation of part C.

Jozefina Gramatikova
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Homework Statement


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Homework Equations


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The Attempt at a Solution


39993406_927774120767135_7069655820077629440_n.jpg

The textbook says that the electric field on a surface of a conductor is:
upload_2018-8-23_17-40-11.png
. So, I guess since the sphere is metallic I can assume that what I have written there is true?
 

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The answer for the electric field ## E ## of a flat sheet with surface charge density ## \sigma ## needs some qualification here. A surface charge density of ## \sigma ## gives the result by Gauss' law that ## E=\frac{\sigma}{\epsilon_o} ## if there is a conductor on one side, but otherwise the result is ## E=\frac{\sigma}{2 \epsilon_o} ## if there is free space on both sides. It is the first case that applies here. ## \\ ## Gauss' law says that the electric flux which is ## \int E \cdot dA=\frac{Q_{enclosed}}{\epsilon_o} ##. It is difficult to explain the idea of flux without a chalkboard, but perhaps what I have given you will be helpful. ## \\ ## If you understand Gauss' law, deriving the result that ## E=\frac{\sigma}{\epsilon_o} ## at the surface of a conductor is very straightforward.
 
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Charles Link said:
The answer for the electric field ## E ## of a flat sheet with surface charge density ## \sigma ## needs some qualification here. A surface charge density of ## \sigma ## gives the result by Gauss' law that ## E=\frac{\sigma}{\epsilon_o} ## if there is a conductor on one side, but otherwise the result is ## E=\frac{\sigma}{2 \epsilon_o} ## if there is free space on both sides. It is the first case that applies here. ## \\ ## Gauss' law says that the electric flux which is ## \int E \cdot dA=\frac{Q_{enclosed}}{\epsilon_o} ##. It is difficult to explain the idea of flux without a chalkboard, but perhaps what I have given you will be helpful. ## \\ ## If you understand Gauss' law, deriving the result that ## E=\frac{\sigma}{\epsilon_o} ## at the surface of a conductor is very straightforward.
what do you mean by "if there is free space on both sides"?
 
Jozefina Gramatikova said:
what do you mean by "if there is free space on both sides"?
A layer of surface charge where you have air on both sides when you draw what is called a Gaussian pillbox around a section of area ## A ## of surface charge density ## \sigma ##. When you calculate the flux on the "inside", the conductor necessarily has ## E=0 ## inside the conductor, so there is no contribution to the flux from the inside surface. Alternatively, if there is air on both sides, both sides get the same outward pointing ## E ## and the result is ## E=\frac{\sigma}{2 \epsilon_o} ##. ## \\ ## (In full detail, for the conductor case: ## \int E \cdot dA=EA=\frac{\sigma A}{\epsilon_o} ##, so that ## E=\frac{\sigma}{\epsilon_o} ##. ## \\ ## And for the case with air on both sides: ## \int E \cdot dA=2 E A=\frac{\sigma A}{\epsilon_o } ##, so that ## E=\frac{\sigma}{2 \epsilon_o} ## ).
 
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Charles Link said:
A layer of surface charge where you have air on both sides when you draw what is called a Gaussian pillbox around a section of area ## A ## of surface charge density ## \sigma ##. When you calculate the flux on the "inside", the conductor necessarily has ## E=0 ## inside the conductor, so there is no contribution to the flux from the inside surface. Alternatively, if there is air on both sides, both sides get the same outward pointing ## E ## and the result is ## E=\frac{\sigma}{2 \epsilon_o} ##. ## \\ ## (In full detail, for the conductor case: ## \int E \cdot dA=EA=\frac{\sigma A}{\epsilon_o} ##, so that ## E=\frac{\sigma}{\epsilon_o} ##. ## \\ ## And for the case with air on both sides: ## \int E \cdot dA=2 E A=\frac{\sigma A}{\epsilon_o } ##, so that ## E=\frac{\sigma}{2 \epsilon_o} ## ).
Oh, damn. I finally understood it! Thank you so much! It actually makes sense!
 
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Charles Link said:
A layer of surface charge where you have air on both sides when you draw what is called a Gaussian pillbox around a section of area ## A ## of surface charge density ## \sigma ##. When you calculate the flux on the "inside", the conductor necessarily has ## E=0 ## inside the conductor, so there is no contribution to the flux from the inside surface. Alternatively, if there is air on both sides, both sides get the same outward pointing ## E ## and the result is ## E=\frac{\sigma}{2 \epsilon_o} ##. ## \\ ## (In full detail, for the conductor case: ## \int E \cdot dA=EA=\frac{\sigma A}{\epsilon_o} ##, so that ## E=\frac{\sigma}{\epsilon_o} ##. ## \\ ## And for the case with air on both sides: ## \int E \cdot dA=2 E A=\frac{\sigma A}{\epsilon_o } ##, so that ## E=\frac{\sigma}{2 \epsilon_o} ## ).
So, the solution to part A) is:
upload_2018-8-23_19-32-35.png

and part C) is:
upload_2018-8-23_19-32-59.png
?
 

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Jozefina Gramatikova said:
So, the solution to part A) is: View attachment 229715
and part C) is: View attachment 229716 ?
Part A needs to be described in more detail, and they need to specify "with a conductor on one side". Without that additional detail being included, part C does not follow. I do think this my have been an oversight on the part of the person who made up the question.
 
Charles Link said:
Part A needs to be described in more detail, and they need to specify "with a conductor on one side". Without that additional detail being included, part C does not follow. I do think this my have been an oversight on the part of the person who made up the question.
It says it is a metallic sphere so isn't it a conductor?
 
Jozefina Gramatikova said:
It says it is a metallic sphere so isn't it a conductor?
Yes, that means it's a conductor, but they did not tell you in part A to derive the Gauss' law for the case of conductor material on one side of the Gaussian pillbox. It is a very good result that they are having you derive, but they need to present the question with sufficient detail that you get the correct result. There are two different cases that can occur. The case with air on both sides is not relevant here, but if you just read part A, it would appear that's what they are asking for.
 
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Charles Link said:
Yes, that means it's a conductor, but they did not tell you in part A to derive the Gauss' law for the case of conductor material on one side of the Gaussian pillbox. It is a very good result that they are having you derive, but they need to present the question with sufficient detail that you get the correct result. There are two different cases that can occur. The case with air on both sides is not relevant here, but if you just read part A, it would appear that's what they are asking for.
I see. Thank you!
 
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