Electron wave function collapse

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of electron wave function collapse, particularly in the context of quantum mechanics and the quantum Zeno effect. Participants explore the implications of wave function collapse, the nature of electron behavior during observation, and the effects of environmental interactions on electron states.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes the electron as a probability cloud that collapses to a specific point upon observation, questioning the behavior of the electron if continuously observed.
  • Another participant references the quantum Zeno effect, suggesting that frequent observation can influence the state of the electron.
  • Concerns are raised about the applicability of theoretical models to real-world scenarios, particularly regarding decoherence and its impact on electron states due to environmental interactions.
  • Some participants argue that electrons in atoms are subject to constant decoherence from various environmental factors, which may affect their behavior and state representation.
  • It is noted that the interaction of electron states with the environment contributes to the non-zero width of energy levels in atoms, which is observable in spectroscopy.
  • A participant seeks clarification on the relationship between the width of an atom's spectral lines and the energy of the vacuum, indicating uncertainty about the explanation provided.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of wave function collapse and the effects of environmental interactions on electron behavior. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the extent to which these factors influence the electron's state and behavior.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the complexity of decoherence and its relationship with entropy, suggesting that assumptions about isolation in theoretical models may not hold in practical scenarios.

phil ess
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As far as I understand it, an electron exists as a probability cloud around an atom, representing all the possible places it could be. Then when we make an observation the wave function collapses to one point where we see the electron. So what happens if we keep looking at it? Does the elctron jump around randomly between different positions? I don't imagine it would just stay in the same place, but what does it do?

Sorry if I have worded the question poorly, thanks!
 
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I can understand the description for a theoretically isolated atom in a vacuum...but not for one in the real world...

Wikipedia says

The quantum Zeno effect is the suppression of unitary time evolution caused by quantum decoherence in quantum systems provided by a variety of sources: measurement, interactions with the environment

I just got done reading elsewhere that decoherence and entropy go hand in hand, inexorably, as nature constantly disperses information and samples just about everything via decohence with the environment...information is dispersed, entropy increases, in fact it can't be stopped in any pratical way.

So I would have thought that for certain a typical electron in an atom would be undergoing near constant decoherence from interactions/samplings with the environment... nature "measures" everything all the time what with photons, gravitons, cosmic rays, vibrations, TV signals,etc bombarding everything...so how do we suppose an electron in the real world would not be closely coupled to it? How can it stay in an uncertain "cloud".

For example, a conductor of electricity with impressed voltage has no problem picking the loosly bound electrons for transport to a neighbor...it's not like a tightly bound one pops up and moves along...the loosely bound outer shell electrons sure know who they are!
 
Naty1 said:
So I would have thought that for certain a typical electron in an atom would be undergoing near constant decoherence from interactions/samplings with the environment...

Correct. Although, it is the state of the electron that is being "measured"; not the electron itself (an electron bound to an ion is not free so you can't think of it as an independent particle in this context).
Anyway, the fact that the states interacts with the environment (even if it is only the vacuum) is the reason why real energy levels in atoms have a non-zero width (which in turn is why you can see lines in spectroscopy); the width of the level in frequency is simply given by 1/lifetime.
However, the coherence times for most states in atoms are pretty long so in most calculations we can model the levels as being discrete.
 
f95toli said:
Anyway, the fact that the states interacts with the environment (even if it is only the vacuum) is the reason why real energy levels in atoms have a non-zero width (which in turn is why you can see lines in spectroscopy); the width of the level in frequency is simply given by 1/lifetime.
This is interesting but I'm not sure to have understood it well. Do you mean that the line's width of an atom's spectrum is in some way related with the void's energy?
 

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