Electrons Entangled with Nucleus?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of entanglement in the context of a hydrogen atom, specifically examining whether the electron and proton can be considered entangled due to their interactions and properties as described by quantum field theory (QFT).

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that the electron and proton in a hydrogen atom are entangled due to the constant exchange of photons, questioning the nature of their relationship.
  • Another participant argues that entanglement requires identical and indistinguishable particles in a common multi-particle state, asserting that the intrinsic differences between the nucleus and electron preclude traditional entanglement.
  • A later reply acknowledges the distinction made about virtual particles and entanglement, referencing readings from Susskind and Penrose that suggest entanglement can occur between different types of particles.
  • Another participant points out that while the electron and proton are not identical, their spins can be entangled in a specific state of total angular momentum, implying a relationship between their measurements.
  • Further, it is noted that quarks within protons and neutrons are also entangled, highlighting that entanglement can manifest in various forms beyond identical particles.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of entanglement between the electron and proton, with no consensus reached on whether they can be considered entangled in the traditional sense. The discussion reflects multiple competing perspectives on the topic.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference specific theories and interpretations, indicating that the discussion may depend on varying definitions of entanglement and the conditions under which it is considered to occur.

LarryS
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Consider the simplest of all possible atoms: A hydrogen atom with only a proton as its nucleus.

According to QFT, the electron is constantly exchanging photons with the proton.

So, are the electron and proton entangled?

Thanks in advance.
 
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Entanglement does not mean exchanging virtual particles. It means several identical, and indistinguishable particles to be found in a common multi-particle state that cannot be factor in single-particle states. The nucleus, and the electron are intrinsically different. Therefore, one cannot speak of entanglement in the usual sense, as used in Quantum Mechanics.
 
Dickfore said:
Entanglement does not mean exchanging virtual particles. It means several identical, and indistinguishable particles to be found in a common multi-particle state that cannot be factor in single-particle states. The nucleus, and the electron are intrinsically different. Therefore, one cannot speak of entanglement in the usual sense, as used in Quantum Mechanics.

Virtual particles not causing entanglement makes sense. Thanks.

But, from what I have read (Susskind, Penrose), entanglement between different types of parties can exist. Entanglement that occurs between identical particles is just one type of entanglement.
 
Referframe, you're correct. Given an atom in a specific state of total angular momentum, it will be in a superposition of states with specific electron spin and nuclear spin. Although the particles are not identical, their spins are entangled. Subsequently if the nuclear spin is measured, e.g. by a gamma decay and measurement of the gamma spin, the electron spin will be determined.
 
referframe said:
Virtual particles not causing entanglement makes sense. Thanks.

But, from what I have read (Susskind, Penrose), entanglement between different types of parties can exist. Entanglement that occurs between identical particles is just one type of entanglement.

That is correct. Consider as well the 3 quarks that make up a proton or neutron. They are entangled too. For example: color, spin...
 

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