Eliot Spitzer Linked to Prostitution Ring

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the allegations linking New York Governor Eliot Spitzer to a prostitution ring, as reported by the New York Times. Participants explore the implications of these allegations, Spitzer's past actions as attorney general, and the potential political fallout, including speculation about his resignation and its impact on the political landscape.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Meta-discussion

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express skepticism about the credibility of the New York Times report, suggesting it could be misleading.
  • Others highlight Spitzer's previous strong stance against prostitution, questioning the contradiction between his past actions and current allegations.
  • A participant notes the potential political ramifications, including speculation about Spitzer's resignation and its effects on the Democratic Party.
  • Concerns are raised about the media coverage of the scandal and its overshadowing of other political news, particularly during election season.
  • Some participants reflect on Spitzer's character and past behavior as attorney general, suggesting he may face similar scrutiny as he did to others.
  • There is speculation about the implications of the scandal for potential political alliances, particularly regarding Hillary Clinton.
  • A participant discusses the strategic considerations for politicians involved in scandals, emphasizing the importance of party dynamics and public perception.
  • Another participant mentions the investigation's origins in a tax inquiry, suggesting that Spitzer's financial activities may have raised red flags.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of opinions, with no clear consensus on the implications of the allegations or Spitzer's future. Some agree on the seriousness of the situation, while others focus on the political maneuvering that may follow.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference various aspects of Spitzer's political career and the nature of scandals, indicating a complex interplay of ethics, public perception, and party politics. The discussion reflects a variety of assumptions about the motivations and consequences of political actions.

Who May Find This Useful

Readers interested in political scandals, media influence on public perception, and the dynamics of party politics may find this discussion relevant.

  • #31
Ivan Seeking said:
Fear mongering is to argue that we live in such a dangerous world that we have to trash the constitution. We made it through fifty years of Soviet nukes pointed at us but still managed to preserve the law.
Tell it to the victims of the HUAC, Hoover and the FBI, Jim Crow laws, etc. Thanks, but I'll take take 2007 anytime over 1957.
 
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  • #32
RonL said:
I don't remember what i was watching, but Hillary sounded as if she was saying Dem's might get the chance to vote for both:confused: might she have meant that no matter which won, the other might become the running mate as VP ?

Well, I think the subtext is "I'll let you (meaning Sen. Obama) join my ticket as VP. If you don't accept this offer and it goes down to the wire, the VP position will go to someone else."

That said, I believe that Sen. Clinton needs Sen. Obama more than the other way around. I believe there are people who would vote for Clinton-Obama than Clinton-Someone else. I don't believe there are people who would vote for Obama-Clinton and who would not vote for Obama-Someone else.

As far as vice presidential candidates, I don't see John Edwards providing much value to Obama (unless he needs the 26 delegates!). I don't see anyone saying, "Well, I didn't care for that Obama fellow, but having John Edwards on the ticket changes things." Given the kind of campaign Edwards ran, I don't see him attracting moderate Republican or swing voters. I think it's much more likely to see someone with executive experience like Kathleen Sebelius (governor of Kansas, a democrat who can win an election in a red state) or Bill Richardson (governor of New Mexico, who formerly held two Cabinet-level positions). Maybe not those exact people, but someone with that sort of background and track record.
 
  • #33
This is just another example of a politician distracting the public with his right hand (putting prostitutes in jail) while with his left hand ( cheating on his wife with prostitutes) he/she contradicts everything they claim to believe and be against. nothing new with politicians and definitely not surprising. I got to applaud the guy for being so good at lying to so many people. The most interesting part of this story is how he got caught, and I would never have guessed, but it was the IRS, first honest thing department has done by my count :)
 
  • #34
t-money said:
This is just another example of a politician distracting the public with his right hand (putting prostitutes in jail) while with his left hand ( cheating on his wife with prostitutes) he/she contradicts everything they claim to believe and be against. nothing new with politicians and definitely not surprising. I got to applaud the guy for being so good at lying to so many people. The most interesting part of this story is how he got caught, and I would never have guessed, but it was the IRS, first honest thing department has done by my count :)
Agreed, Eliot Spitzer contradicted everything he/she claimed to be against when he/she cheated on his/her wife with his/her left hand. But don't you think the IRS was being honest about Capone when they put him/her behind bars?
 
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  • #35
Eliot Spitzer announced his resignation 11:45 today to be effective Monday, March 17. David Paterson, Lt. Gov., will become governor of NY.

I admire Spitzer for taking his lumps.
 
  • #36
Astronuc said:
...I admire Spitzer for taking his lumps.
Did he? Or did he plea bargain away any charges in exchange for resigning?
 
  • #37
I think it's quite unlikely he would have been charged.

First, he wasn't the target - the prostitution ring was. Second, it would be difficult to charge Client 9 without charging Clients 1-8 as well. I don't know what the cost of a federal trial is - certainly in the tens of thousands of dollars, and maybe in excess of one hundred thousand dollars. Times nine.

That's a lot of effort for very little gain.
 
  • #38
mheslep said:
Tell it to the victims of the HUAC, Hoover and the FBI, Jim Crow laws, etc. Thanks, but I'll take take 2007 anytime over 1957.

These too are all viewed as shameful episodes in US history.

Jim Crow Laws were state and local laws and not federal mandates. In order to end racist practices by individual States, the feds stepped in.

The HUAC lost it's battle and many of those persecuted were eventually exonorated.

Hoover was also out of control. I think most people agree on this point.

So tyranny is justified when other examples that are now rejected as being wrong or illegal can be cited?

Again, what about terrorism is more dangerous than the threat of global annihiliation or a sneak nuclear attack by the Soviets? What justifies extraordinary measures now that haven't always been justified using the same logic?
 
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  • #39
Ivan Seeking said:
These too are all viewed as shameful episodes in US history.

Jim Crow Laws were state and local laws and not federal mandates. In order to end racist practices by individual States, the feds stepped in.

The HUAC lost it's battle and many of those persecuted were eventually exonerated.

Hoover was also out of control. I think most people agree on this point.
Regardless of how they ended, all of these are clear examples of how constitutional protections were ignored: 14th, 4th, 5th. Further there was a great deal of actual suffering caused to US citizens because of it. Jim Crow laws would be thrown out before the ink was dry today.

So tyranny is justified when other examples that are now rejected as being wrong or illegal can be cited?
Strawman. I don't defend all the status quo. I do say the prior suggested historical perspective of now vs 50 yrs ago is totally upside down, if the actual harms to US citizens are weighed.
 
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  • #40
As for Spitzer, I thought his licenses for illegals scam was sneaky and underhanded and not in the interest of the US. It was intended to further his personal agenda to make illegals, legal, even though it clearly was in violation of the public trust.

I'm glad to see him go.
 
  • #41
Wow! $80,000 spent on prostitutes over a period of ten years! His latest just a day before Valentine's day! What a psychological wreck he must be. It's horrific the damage he has done to his wife and daughters. Quite a shock to their system this must be.
Chicago psychoanalyst Mark Smaller believes one can find useful parallels in the case of certain patients, from all walks of life, who exhibit a striking capacity to compartmentalize risky, unethical or even illegal behavior, a process known as the "splitting" of part of the personality.

"They can be otherwise completely law-abiding, sensible, reliable people," Smaller says. "Often the behavior in question is caused by intense anxiety, stress in the workplace or home, or feeling overwhelmed." And often, he says, the behavior can involve sex, drugs, or something like shoplifting.

"They compartmentalize to the extent that they don't feel any sense of shame or guilt," Smaller said. "Until," he adds, "they get caught."
http://www.cnn.com/2008/LIVING/personal/03/11/spitzer.psychology.ap/index.html


Will the media please stop photographing and displaying photos of his family? That is truly repugnant!
 
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  • #42
chemisttree said:
Wow! $80,000 spent on prostitutes over a period of ten years! His latest just a day before Valentine's day! What a psychological wreck he must be. It's horrific the damage he has done to his wife and daughters. Quite a shock to their system this must be.http://www.cnn.com/2008/LIVING/personal/03/11/spitzer.psychology.ap/index.html
They were charging about $4300 a pop. That's a couple times a year. (Although I'm not sure the price was always that high over the entire 10 year period.)

The price is more outrageous than the frequency. He could have bought over 20 Yugos for those prices.
 
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  • #43
BobG said:
They were charging about $4300 a pop. That's a couple times a year. (Although I'm not sure the price was always that high over the entire 10 year period.)

The price is more outrageous than the frequency. He could have bought over 20 Yugos for those prices.
Yeah, but call girls are easier to push around.
 
  • #44
turbo-1 said:
Yeah, but call girls are easier to push around.
rotflmfhoshticcmb.
 
  • #45
jimmysnyder said:
rotflmfhoshticcmb.

I think jimmysnyder's head just hit his keyboard...

jimmy! Wake up, jimmy!
 
  • #46
Vanadium 50 said:
I think it's quite unlikely he would have been charged.

First, he wasn't the target - the prostitution ring was. Second, it would be difficult to charge Client 9 without charging Clients 1-8 as well.

I would imagine that there are a lot more than 9 clients.

One thing the puzzles me is that the investigation was started over supposedly questionable money transfers. All of the stories I have read indicate the clients used American Express.

Is a $4,300 charge on an American Express card now considered questionable? This looks to me like the investigation was tailor made to try to catch Spitzer and ended up with some unintended consequences.

Those consequences being that what must be a large number of wealthy people were also found to be involved. It will be interesting to see how the investigators get around releasing all of the names.
 
  • #47
edward said:
One thing the puzzles me is that the investigation was started over supposedly questionable money transfers. All of the stories I have read indicate the clients used American Express.

Is a $4,300 charge on an American Express card now considered questionable?
No, it was the money transfers that were reported by the bank, not the Amex usage. Certain patterns of transferring money between accounts in your control can look questionable. What I heard (second-hand at work - I don't have a source right now) is that he set up a dummy corporation to hide the money from his wife.
I would imagine that there are a lot more than 9 clients.
[snip]

This looks to me like the investigation was tailor made to try to catch Spitzer and ended up with some unintended consequences.

Those consequences being that what must be a large number of wealthy people were also found to be involved. It will be interesting to see how the investigators get around releasing all of the names.
Doubt it. I doubt there is much of a market for $4,500 hookers, but I guess I could be wrong.
 
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  • #48
russ_watters said:
I doubt there is much of a market for $4,500 hookers, but I guess I could be wrong.
We might be in for some surprises, Russ. Apparently, as client 9 he was in pretty much from the get-go, and that ring has had a lot of time to build a client list. At that price-point, you should see lobbyists treating politicians to some extra-marital fun, and the guys on the hill won't be particularly anxious to see anything like that come out. There may be a whole closet-full of shoes waiting to drop.
 
  • #50
jimmysnyder said:
rotflmfhoshticcmb.
had you all the way until shticcmb. Family friendly hint? S=Spitzer?
 
  • #51
Prostitution needs to be legalized.
 
  • #52
mheslep said:
had you all the way until shticcmb. Family friendly hint? S=Spitzer?
Nope. It's not so easy.
 
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  • #53
so hard that I couldn't catch my breath
 
  • #54
mheslep said:
Family friendly hint?

The phrase is family friendly, my head is fool, not foul. Follow?
 
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  • #55
mheslep said:
Did he? Or did he plea bargain away any charges in exchange for resigning?
The US AG indicated there is no deal. Spitzer is not out of it yet.

Apparently Spitzer has been using this service for years and has spent something like $80K, as chemisttree.

While I admire Spitzer for taking his lumps, I am disappointed as to what he did, especially since he was NY AG and now governor.
 
  • #56
russ_watters said:
Doubt it. I doubt there is much of a market for $4,500 hookers, but I guess I could be wrong.

Evidently, Spitzer was going with the economy prostitutes. According to the complaint, the Elite prostitutes got $5500 per hour.

The excerpts from the wire taps make a rather bizarre read, even if long. The moms cutting out of appointments early because they have to pick their kids up from school, the one whose behavior scares the 'coordinators' into thinking she's on drugs, etc.

For example, according to the Website, the Emperors
Club charged $1,000 per hour for a three-diamond prostitute, and
$3,100 per hour for a seven-diamond prostitute. The Website
offered the Emperors Club's most valued clients 'membership" in
the 'Icon Club," a status which allowed the clients to access
restricted areas of the Website and permitted them to schedule
appointments for illegal prostitution services with the most
highly-ranked prostitutes whose fees started at $5,500 per hour.

And Emperors Club is a relatively low-class operation. If Spitzer went with the more high-class operations, he probably wouldn't have been caught - http://www.slate.com/id/2186491/nav/tap3/
 
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  • #57
BobG said:
Evidently, Spitzer was going with the economy prostitutes. According to the complaint, the Elite prostitutes got $5500 per hour.

The excerpts from the wire taps make a rather bizarre read, even if long. The moms cutting out of appointments early because they have to pick their kids up from school, the one whose behavior scares the 'coordinators' into thinking she's on drugs, etc.



And Emperors Club is a relatively low-class operation. If Spitzer went with the more high-class operations, he probably wouldn't have been caught - http://www.slate.com/id/2186491/nav/tap3/

Guess i have led too sheltered a life, and worked hard for most of my money, how can anyone who has worked for their money sleep well, paying those prices to get their gun smoked?

I might be stupid in a lot of ways, "BUT WOW":confused::bugeye::eek::rolleyes::mad:
 
  • #58
gravenewworld said:
Prostitution needs to be legalized.

But then in New York it would be run by the teamsters - :eek:
 
  • #59
Isn't there any real news? While this Spitzer story is all over the front pages what's happening in Iraq or Iran, or what's the CIA or the military up to, or what's happening with the US economy?
 
  • #60
russ_watters said:
I doubt there is much of a market for $4,500 hookers, but I guess I could be wrong.

I'm pretty sure there is. Think about how much a wealthy person might http://www.forbes.com/2007/07/23/spa-treatment-expensive-forbeslife-cx_ls_0724spa.html" . (Heh, get a load of that - exfoliation with diamond dust.) Or on dinner at a five-star with Kobe beef and a hundred-year-old bottle of wine. Or how much a white collar coke addict might snort through a rolled-up $100 bill.

I think Spitzer definitely needs to go down in flames but I agree with edward that it will be interesting if the names of the other clients of this place somehow don't get too prominently mentioned.
⚛​
 
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