Energy conservation in heating by irradiation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of energy conservation in the context of heating by irradiation, specifically focusing on how atoms absorb photons and the subsequent energy transfer processes involved. Participants explore the implications of momentum conservation, electronic transitions, and energy dissipation within materials, including gases and bulk solids.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that when an atom absorbs a photon, it gains momentum, akin to a totally inelastic collision, leading to an increase in temperature of the surrounding material.
  • Another participant asserts that the photon is not re-emitted at the same energy level, indicating that some energy is transferred to surrounding atoms before emission occurs.
  • A question is raised about the mechanism of energy transfer, specifically whether it occurs through collisions or radiation.
  • It is clarified that energy transfer occurs by collision, leading to a potential electronic transition without immediate photon emission.
  • One participant proposes that this process may involve phonon emission into the surrounding material, although they express uncertainty about the involvement of translational or rotational energy modes.
  • A later reply emphasizes the distinction between the behavior of a single atom and that of a system of emitters, noting that energy transfer dynamics differ significantly in these contexts.
  • It is mentioned that in bulk materials, electrons can undergo transitions that involve phonon interactions, allowing for a wider range of energy transitions compared to a single atom.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the mechanisms of energy transfer and the implications of photon absorption and emission. There is no consensus on the specifics of how energy is conserved or dissipated in the process.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the complexity of energy transfer processes in different systems, including the need to consider both single atoms and bulk materials. Limitations in understanding the exact mechanisms and interactions involved are acknowledged.

FredMadison
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Hi all!

I've been thinking of something lately.

When an atom absorbs an incoming photon, the atom must gain some momentum in order to conserve linear momentum, right? Sort of like a totally inelastic collision? This momentum corresponds to some amount of kinetic energy and thus a raise in temperature of the gas, liquid or bulk of which the atom is a part.

This is how I've understood heating by irradiation, please correct me if I'm wrong.

Now the atom, having absorbed a photon, is in an excited electronic state. By means of spontaneous emission it will again return to its ground state by emitting a photon. But what about the energy that is dissipated throughout the material? In a gas, for example, suppose the atom transfers some of its kinetic energy to another atom before emitting a photon and returning to its ground state, there seems to me to have somehow entered extra energy?
Like this:

photon energy in (E) = photon energy out (E) + heating of gas (Q)

Since the photon energies are the same, where does Q come from?
Surely I'm missing something in my very primitive analysis, but where do I go wrong?
 
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The photon is not re-emitted at the same energy level; some energy is transferred to the surrounding atoms first.
 
Transferred how? By collision or by radiation?
 
By collision.
 
So, in the collision, there is an electronic transition to a lower state without photon emission?
 
Yes, I believe this is modeled as a phonon emission into the surrounding material. But I'm not sure if translational or rotational energy modes come into the picture also. Perhaps the QM experts could enlighten us.
 
FredMadison said:
When an atom absorbs an incoming photon, the atom must gain some momentum in order to conserve linear momentum, right? Sort of like a totally inelastic collision? This momentum corresponds to some amount of kinetic energy and thus a raise in temperature of the gas, liquid or bulk of which the atom is a part.

This is how I've understood heating by irradiation, please correct me if I'm wrong.

Now the atom, having absorbed a photon, is in an excited electronic state. By means of spontaneous emission it will again return to its ground state by emitting a photon. But what about the energy that is dissipated throughout the material? In a gas, for example, suppose the atom transfers some of its kinetic energy to another atom before emitting a photon and returning to its ground state, there seems to me to have somehow entered extra energy?
Like this:

photon energy in (E) = photon energy out (E) + heating of gas (Q)

Since the photon energies are the same, where does Q come from?
Surely I'm missing something in my very primitive analysis, but where do I go wrong?

Mapes already told you the answers, but I would like to stress, that you are mixing two different cases here. There is the case of the excitation and emission of a single atom and the excitation and emission of a whole system of emitters.

The single atom has discrete energies and can only absorb or emit photons at one of these energies. As we do only consider a single atom, there won't be any energy transfer to other atoms.

On the other hand, there are whole systems of emitters, for example bulk material like metals or semiconductors. Here you have allowed energy bands for the electron energy and therefore also a wider range of allowed transitions. So it is possible, that an electron, which was excited to the conduction band, interacts with the system, for example by emission of phonons, which changes the momentum and energy of the electron, and afterwards still undergoes an transition back to the valence band at an energy, which is lower than the excitation energy was. Note that in this case the electron is not considered as belonging to one special single atom anymore.
 

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