Energy operator and the Hamiltonian operator: Are they same?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between the energy operator and the Hamiltonian operator in quantum mechanics, specifically addressing whether they are the same. Participants explore concepts related to Schrödinger's Equation, the nature of wavefunctions, and the implications of operator actions in quantum theory.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that the energy operator and the Hamiltonian operator are not the same, citing differences in their actions on wavefunctions.
  • There is a distinction made between the functions ##\Psi##, which represent the entire space-time behavior of a system, and ##\psi##, which denotes spatial behavior at a specific time.
  • One participant argues that time in quantum theory is a parameter and not an observable, referencing historical arguments from Pauli.
  • Another participant discusses the implications of the Hamiltonian being a self-adjoint operator and its relation to the structure of the space of functions it acts upon.
  • Some participants question whether the Hamiltonian can act on the ##\Psi## functions, suggesting that while it can, the interpretation of its action differs based on the context.
  • There is mention of the ordering problem in quantum mechanics, which can lead to ambiguities in defining the Hamiltonian operator.
  • Participants discuss the nature of eigenkets, noting that eigenkets of the energy operator may not necessarily be eigenkets of the Hamiltonian operator.
  • One participant raises the concept of separation of variables in transitioning from the time-dependent to the time-independent Schrödinger equation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between the energy operator and the Hamiltonian operator, with no consensus reached. Some agree on the distinctions between the operators and their respective actions, while others challenge or refine these claims.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in definitions and the potential for ambiguity in operator ordering, which complicates the discussion. The relationship between the operators is not universally agreed upon, and various interpretations exist.

  • #31
vanhees71 said:
That's a clear misconception and in fact contradicts quantum theory. The Hamiltonian is NOT ##\mathrm{i} \partial_t## but a function(al) of some set of fundamental operators (in single-particle non-relativistic QT that's the position, momentum, and spin operators). Sometimes ##\hat{H}## is also explicitly time dependent (e.g., the motion of a charged particle in a time-dependent em. field), i.e.,
$$\hat{H}=\hat{H}(\hat{\vec{x}},\hat{\vec{p}},\hat{\vec{S}},t).$$
Ummm... is this addressed to me? If so, where did I mention the word 'Hamiltonian'?? I was addressing a common confusion over the status of the operator ##\mathrm{i}\hbar \partial_t##.
 
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  • #32
arpon said:
The two operators are the same on the space of solutions of the Schrödinger equation. On a more general space of all functions of space and time, those are different operators.
 
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  • #33
Physics Footnotes said:
[...] I was addressing a common confusion over the status of the operator ##\mathrm{i}\hbar \partial_t##.

And to be really fair (i.e. to show that I've checked the answers on our competition's website - where both of us already posted on a similar topic), the mathematical sense in which these "quantum worldlines" should be looked at is wonderfully presented in this topic (question properly formulated and the answer to it).

https://physics.stackexchange.com/q...r-as-expressed-in-abstract-hilbert-space-vs-a
 
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  • #34
Ok, obviously here's a clash of different languages going on. From a physicists point of view it is utmost important to be very clear about the fact that time in quantum theory is NOT an observable but a parameter for the simple reason that otherwise it would be the canonical conjugate to the Hamiltonian, which then due to the analogy with the position-momentum commutation relation would have entire ##\mathbb{R}## as its spectrum and thus there'd be no stable ground state.

In the abstract (representation-free) Hilbert-space formalism the choice of the time dependence is determined only up to a time-dependent unitary transformation, i.e., you can shuffle the time dependence between the operators representing observables and the statistical operator (or state vectors representing the rays standing for the special case of pure states) quite arbitrarily. Of course, this choice of the picture of time evolution doesn't affect any physical outcomes, i.e., probabilities or probability distributions for the outcome of measurements or transition-matrix elements and the like, but I think that's not the issue here.
 

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