England vs Ecuador: 0-0 Score at Half Time

[marlon]

Ok England... Yes German have a beter track record than England. Actually they have the second best track record behind Brazil.

I am still waiting for the BIG upsets you have been talking about in this world cup?

First of all, i am not only talking about this world cup but all other competitions as well.

In this WC : Italy versus the USA

marlon

edit : and i am still not getting your example of Germany and Costa Rica...especially within the context of bigger teams losing against smaller teams

 

[Anttech]

That was Sacarism... And I thought you were talking about this world cup, or at least the qualifiers... Since you weren't I see not relevency to this arguement, unless you are implying that Germany been beaten or drawing with most top flight European teams since Euro2004, is just that: Germany the big team been beaten by the smaller teams in Europe.

A team is as big as its players, name me the 'World class' players in the german team?

1 springs to mind Ballack, who is playing very well right now.. Cant think of any others who are 'world class' (And are proven to be)

Spain, Portugal, France, Netherlands, (Dare I say it) England, Czech Republic, Italy. All have numerous recognised names that one would say are, 'World class' german have 3 maybe... But can u name them?

 

[J77]

A team may be as big as it players but it isn't as good as.

Klose and Polandski (sp?) look brilliant so far.

btw: Lehmann and Kahn should be considered world-class.

This argument is going round in circles.

Has it anything to do with England any more?

 

[marlon]

A team is as big as its players, name me the 'World class' players in the german team?

1 springs to mind Ballack, who is playing very well right now.. Cant think of any others who are 'world class' (And are proven to be)

Well these types of arguments completely contradict with the very nature of the soccer game. A world class TEAM does not need wrold class players. It needs players that can work together in a "world class manner". A good team just needs one world class player, like Ballack or Klose and then many good players that are well adjusted to each other. Another example is the Argentina of Maradonna or the Napoli of Maradonna. An example of the "opposite not working" is Real Madrid. I think such examples do not need any further elaboration.

Secondly, YES my argument of "big teams versus small teams" is still relevant even if you we look at other competitions as well. What i wanted to explain is that you cannot just say germany is bad because they have not yet played and beaten a big team. There have been many big teams that were beaten by smaller teams. Does that make those big teams small ? No it does NOT. Whether such events occurred in this world cup or not is not relevant because it is the general underlying principle that i wanted to outline.

marlon

edit

Spain, Portugal, France, Netherlands, (Dare I say it) England, Czech Republic, Italy. All have numerous recognised names that one would say are, 'World class' german have 3 maybe... But can u name them?

Yeah, and look how France is playing
Yeah, and look how England is playing (besides, what top players here ?)
Yeah, and look how Italy is playing (what big team have they beaten yet ?)
Yeah, and look how Holland is playing (they are already out, although they are the only team in your list with true potential towards the future)

marlon

 

[marlon]

A team may be as big as it players but it isn't as good as.

Klose and Polandski (sp?) look brilliant so far.

btw: Lehmann and Kahn should be considered world-class.

CORRECTAMUNDO

marlon

 

[Anttech]

Another example is the Argentina of Maradonna or the Napoli of Maradonna. An example of the "opposite not working" is Real Madrid. I think such examples do not need any further elaboration.

You think wrong then, Real Madrid's problem isn't that they have world class players, it's that they don't play well together, and have ZZ as the play maker who is past his prime. Barcelona conridict what you just said.. World class and world beaters..

Secondly, YES my argument of "big teams versus small teams" is still relevant even if you we look at other competitions as well. What i wanted to explain is that you cannot just say germany is bad because they have not yet played and beaten a big team. There have been many big teams that were beaten by smaller teams. Does that make those big teams small ? No it does NOT. Whether such events occurred in this world cup or not is not relevant because it is the general underlying principle that i wanted to outline.

What has that got to do with anything?

A team may be as big as it players but it isn't as good as.

Klose and Polandski (sp?) look brilliant so far.

btw: Lehmann and Kahn should be considered world-class.

LOOK let's go right back to the begining.

German per popular oppinion in the football press (Bar Mr viva La France here[joking mate]) are playing above what was expected from them, and what should be expected looking at there team sheet. They are not a very good team (stats) and are over performing, they still have to be tested regardless... If they win I will retract what I have said. ANYWAY let's not forget that its being played IN GERMANY

 

[Anttech]

I never said a good team needs world class players.. But it helps... Hell Greece won the Euro )))))))) (But we have some great players)

 

[marlon]

You think wrong then, Real Madrid's problem isn't that they have world class players, it's that they don't play well together,

But this is exactly what i was trying to tell you. YOU were the one who was just talking about world class players, I was the one brining in the argument of "good team play". It seems to me that the content of your own words changes with every post. It is very difficult (but not impossible, though) to keep track of that.

What has that got to do with anything?

What do you mean ?

German per popular oppinion in the football press (Bar Mr viva La France here[joking mate]) are playing above what was expected from them, and what should be expected looking at there team sheet. They are not a very good team (stats) and are over performing, they still have to be tested regardless... If they win I will retract what I have said. ANYWAY let's not forget that its being played IN GERMANY

Are we going to start all over again ?

Ok, once more, what you state here is IRRELEVANT AND UNTRUE...(the rest of my answer can be read from my second post in this thread on)

marlon

 

[Anttech]

But this is exactly what i was trying to tell you. YOU were the one who was just talking about world class players, I was the one brining in the argument of "good team play". It seems to me that the content of your own words changes with every post. It is very difficult (but not impossible, though) to keep track of that.

kettle calling the pot black... I THINK YOU WILL FIND THIS IS EXACTLY THE WAY YOU HAVE BEEN DEGRADING THIS THREAD. I have not changed my stance..

Ok, once more, what you state here is IRRELEVANT AND UNTRU

LOL Its hard FACT... Irrelevent IN YOUR OPPINION

But this is exactly what i was trying to tell you.

In future if you are trying to tell something to someone, it would be preferable if you actually say that...

madness... You are impossible

 

[shmoe]

Yes but we all know that the host nation has a team that is very representative in soccer. This is one of the unwritten laws of FIFA when the host nation gets chosen. It is as simple as that.

USA '94, Korea/Japan 2002, South Africa 2010... not exactly the faces of football These are more choosen to spread the game around than by the hosts prowess.

Hey, maybe the German team just did not give it it's all because they did not care about gettin' selected. Maybe the pressure was not there. Well, it is there now and look at how their results have changed.

I'd agree with that. They weren't really under the pressure of qualify or die, so who knows if they would have made it through.

They have played quite well so far, very entertaining. "World Class" player count is totally irrelevant when it comes to the Germans, 2002 a great example.


Some England comments : can anyone defend Svens last minute substitution of Gerrard? That seemed nuts. I think it's a mistake that Wolcott hasn't been played yet (given that he's already here, but it's too late to get into that). If he couldn't be trusted against any of their relatively weak opponents so far, how much confidence could he have if he has to play against Portugal?

 

[marlon]

kettle calling the pot black... I THINK YOU WILL FIND THIS IS EXACTLY THE WAY YOU HAVE BEEN DEGRADING THIS THREAD. I have not changed my stance..

Well, if this is the only reaction you can come up with...ok, whatever...it is very brave that your "stance" remains unchanged. Same here.

LOL Its hard FACT... Irrelevent IN YOUR OPPINION

HARD FACT...ERRR, yeah...in what journal was this published again ?

In future if you are trying to tell something to someone, it would be preferable if you actually say that...

Well, that only helps if the people you are talking to actually take the effort of LISTENING and not regurgitating their own opinion over and over again.

madness... You are impossible

That's what my mother used to say as well.

marlon

 

[Anttech]

marlon, I have read what you have said.. I didnt aggree and don't aggree... and never will aggree with what you said. You come across as someone who know little to nothing about football..

HARD FACT...ERRR, yeah...in what journal was this published again ?

yeh the FIFA www site... They haven't beaten 1 top level Euro team since before euro2004.. is a statement which is backed up with fact... u don't seem to get that do you? it is a fact..

Again I won't be participating in this little sledging game of yours any longer

 

[BobG]

I'd have to agree more with Anttech on this one, but I don't think either one will make it through.

Germany is riding the wave of being the host nation. USA did great in '94, SKorea did great in '02. In fact, considering France's performance since '98, maybe they're WC was due more to being host nation than talent. Still, I'd say Germany is very close to being a great team again. Countries like Brazil, Germany, and Italy never really rebuild, they just reload. They won't be good enough to get by Argentina, which is already a great team, right now, when it matters.

England is playing a lot worse than I would have expected. I really thought they had a good chance this year. They were the best team in Europe (if you discount Czech Republic which was obviously over rated) and the champion usually comes from the same continent as the host nation. I think they just got a lot weaker losing Owen, though. I'm hoping they get by Portugal, but there's no way they're getting by Brazil.

All things considered, I think that having the WC in Europe won't be as important as it usually is and you'll have an all-America final.

 

[marlon]

marlon, I have read what you have said.. I didnt aggree and don't aggree... and never will aggree with what you said.

Your point being ?

You come across as someone who know little to nothing about football..

Strange, i am thinking the exact same thing about you.

yeh the FIFA www site... They haven't beaten 1 top level Euro team since before euro2004.. is a statement which is backed up with fact... u don't seem to get that do you? it is a fact..

But i am not denying that, i am saying that this is irrelevant. Jeezus : learn to read and listen.

Again I won't be participating in this little sledging game of yours any longer

God, it's like talking to an angry child.

Anyhow, please do feel free to do whatever you want to do.

marlon

 

[marlon]

I'd have to agree more with Anttech on this one, but I don't think either one will make it through.

You agree on what exactly ?

Germany is riding the wave of being the host nation.

Well, being the host nation certainly is not a disadvantage but it does not say it all. The US did great in the last worldcup as well. Germany became WChamp in Italy as well...I mean, there are a lot of examples that show the reality is not as simple as it is being presented by Antech.

England is playing a lot worse than I would have expected. I really thought they had a good chance this year. They were the best team in Europe (if you discount Czech Republic which was obviously over rated) and the champion usually comes from the same continent as the host nation. I think they just got a lot weaker losing Owen, though. I'm hoping they get by Portugal, but there's no way they're getting by Brazil.

Yes but this shows that results obtained before the WCup do not say anything about what the achievement in the actual competition will be like. This is what i have been trying to explain to Anttech from the beginning.


marlon

 

[NateTG]

YGermany became WChamp in Italy as well...I mean, there are a lot of examples that show the reality is not as simple as it is being presented by Antech.

To be fair, Klinsman, Brehme, Matthäus, and Völler were all playing in Italy at the time.

 

[Anttech]

To be fair, Klinsman, Brehme, Matthäus, and Völler were all playing in Italy at the time.

NOW that German team were Amazing!

 

[ukmicky]

IMO, he is just a very lucky player, if you know what i mean.


marlon

I think it was pele who said that Joe cole would slot straight into the brazilian squad.

If you were to see joe cole play in the premeirship you would understand why your wrong, the man is truly gifted . His can on occasions show boat to much and at the wrong times, but he will be a great star of the future.

England is playing a lot worse than I would have expected. I really thought they had a good chance this year. They were the best team in Europe (if you discount Czech Republic which was obviously over rated) and the champion usually comes from the same continent as the host nation. I think they just got a lot weaker losing Owen, though. I'm hoping they get by Portugal, but there's no way they're getting by Brazil.

Brazil won't last they've lost it , they just aint good enuf this time round.They haven't got a defence and will go out in the semi finals

One of these teams will win it.
Argentina ,germany or england

 

[Bladibla]

I think it was pele who said that Joe cole would slot straight into the brazilian squad.

If you were to see joe cole play in the premeirship you would understand why your wrong, the man is truly gifted . His can on occasions show boat to much and at the wrong times, but he will be a great star of the future.

I agree with the poster. Joe Cole is gifted, as with Steven Gerrad (The only England players I consider really good)

However, With the current way they are playing, I see it Immensly difficult for England to pass through. Never mind portugal, but either France or Brazil is next, and from what I've seen from Brazil's recovering Ronaldo and Zidane also, they will have to be at their UPMOST form to even stand a chance against them. And Portugal; they may have lost Deco, but a lot of gifted players are still avaliable in that team with Phillip Scolari on their back.

Sven Goran at the way he's going now, is not even a match for Scolari. I think its the MOST optimistic people who think that England are going to win. But, 40 years is a long time to keep saying 'our time is now'.

Bottom line: I really don't think England stand much of a chance in the quarter or semi finals.

 

[ukmicky]

No one believed liverpool were good enough to win the champions leaque but they did.

When england last won the world cup they played rubbish right up to the semi finals.

England have got it in them to raise there game.

 

[Andy]

Im too young to remember many world cups, but some football legend (can't remember who but was brazilian) said that the team that wins the world cup very rarely plays well until the latter stages of the tournemant. To be honest apart from the one mistake made by the england back four that let tenoirio through, equador never looked like they where going to score.

Fingers crossed Frank Lampard starts hitting the target, if he starts scoring we will win the world cup.

 

[Anttech]

One of these teams will win it.
Argentina ,germany or england

Dissaggree.. France could do it, actually any team that is still in, is a potential winner... I think it will be a European team.

Joe Cole reminds me a lot of Gilespie (Ex-Newcastle) direct tricky player, but he is no ginola (best french player never to play for france).. Cole is a good player, not lucky but solid.. But IMO he is no where near the best in the England squad. Typically people who only watch a few games of football a year will come out with these statements, they see some tricky footwork and think wooow...

 

[Bladibla]

One of these teams will win it.
Argentina ,germany or england

Where on Earth did Brazil go?

 

[Anttech]

Where on Earth did Brazil go?

Brazil defence is crap.. But I wouldnt write them off

 

[J77]

The winning team will have the best defence.

Struck me last night...

I thought Brazil play a good back 4.

Key is to have your wing-backs (full-backs) pushing forward. If they don't, you'll get caught out in the middle with them playing people onside when the centre-backs are stepping forward.

iirc, the Germans have problems keeping this back 4 tight.

Missed the French game, but with Gallas and Silvestre next to him in the middle I doubt they have this trouble.

I think England will have no problems if Neville comes back - also adds the link up play to Becks.

All in all, it's sorting itself out.

Normal service - all the usual teams through, with Spain and the Dutch falling short again

(And on defence, Argies may fall short with the fitness of Heinze)

 

[Anttech]

Missed the French game, but with Gallas and Silvestre next to him in the middle I doubt they have this trouble.

Yeap no problems, France controlled the game from the back

 

[Kiley Dean]

Just a self-defense

 

[Bladibla]

Brazil defence is crap.. But I wouldnt write them off

The english people said the exact last thing last world cup when they were up against them. Look what happened.

I still can't believe you're putting Brazil off the world cup. As it looks now, I don't see any team realistically catching up with Brazil, with argentina coming only a tiny bit close

 

[Anttech]

I didnt write them off...

 

[marlon]

To be fair, Klinsman, Brehme, Matthäus, and Völler were all playing in Italy at the time.

Yes, but that goes for Brazil, Argentina, top French players as well...Point is that germany won the WCup in a foreign country and that is all there is too it. This example was just to counter one of Anntech's immature Germany bashing "arguments" that are based upon personal dislike.

marlon

 

[marlon]

The english people said the exact last thing last world cup when they were up against them. Look what happened.

I still can't believe you're putting Brazil off the world cup. As it looks now, I don't see any team realistically catching up with Brazil, with argentina coming only a tiny bit close

Ofcourse, you are completely right. Any one saying that Brazil is a crappy team or has crappy defense or offense or whatever is just full of s**t. Abviously, one should not take into account such hollow remarks because they clearly contradict with obtained results and that is the ONLY thing that matters : OBTAINING HONEST RESULTS. Not, playing like a fool like the Italians.

marlon

 

[DM]

Brazil are weak in defence. Their upcoming game against France should really test them.

 

[DM]

Any one saying that Brazil is a crappy team or has crappy defense or offense or whatever is just full of s**t.

You're not thinking logically, Marlon. You're correct in saying that by claiming Brazil is a crap team in defence or offence, people are quite clearly contradicting themselves. However, have you watched Brazil in their last game against Ghana? Their defence cracked and Ghana should have had scored. Furthermore, they haven't really played against any threatening team.

 

[marlon]

You're not thinking logically, Marlon. You're correct in saying that by claiming Brazil is a crap team in defence or offence, people are quite clearly contradicting themselves. However, have you watched Brazil in their last game against Ghana? Their defence cracked and Ghana should have had scored. Furthermore, they haven't really played against any threatening team.

True

marlon

 

[DM]

Brazil are weak in defence. Their upcoming game against France should really test them.

Point proven