England vs Ecuador: 0-0 Score at Half Time

[Anttech]

That is what you say. someone else will say : they were underachieving, they were just getting started or they did not put in their full effort because of whatever reason. really, you have absolutely no point here and that is exactly why i say

Its not only me who thinks this, the majority of the football press aggrees with me. Germany did really well in Euro2004 didnt they?

I don't get how you can draw such a conclusion based upon what i stated before ? Care to explain

This is irrelevant (and untrue). Besides, it is not very intelligent to compare to a team that is playing great soccer right now. The past does no longer count, man.

Again, this is irrelevant AND UNTRUE because you are living in the past. The achievements prior to the worldcup are history.

...

Do I need to explain?

You are stating that prior results are irrelevent, I am saying they are relevent, and even more so considering german hasnt played a top ranks Euro team (any team) yet. If they beat Arg I will retract what I said. But I don't think I will need to...

 

[marlon]

Its not only me who thinks this, the majority of the football press aggrees with me. Germany did really well in Euro2004 didnt they?

But didn't they do quite well in the 2002 worldcup ?

...

Do I need to explain?

If you wanna, yes. But quoting me will certainly not help gettin' your own point across.

If they beat Arg I will retract what I said. But I don't think I will need to...

Well first of all, YES you will need to...

But actually, what you say is quite strange because you whine about Germany but what about the top teams losing to the smaller teams ?

Really, i just think you are a bit frustrated about Germany performing so well and England performing so...err, well, you know...

I think, one of us is going to be very happy on friday.

regards
marlon

 

[Anttech]

Anyhow, i repeat myself once again. Germany got selected according to the general FIFA rules that are the same for each and every country that wants to participate.

This is confusing, Yes they followed the FIFA Rules, but these rules are NOT the same for each country wanting to participate. As I have stated 2 times already, they did not need to qualify for the world cup because they are the host nation. This rule for qualification is different from every single other country, who HAS to qualify.

 

[Anttech]

Marlon, I am not English :)

I couldn't give a toss if England don't win..

 

[Anttech]

But didn't they do quite well in the 2002 worldcup

Ohh so they weren't trying for euro2004? LOL

The Team they had at 2004 is closer to the same team this year, than that of the worldcup 2002.

Didnt England do good in 1966??

 

[marlon]

This is confusing, Yes they followed the FIFA Rules, but these rules are NOT the same for each country wanting to participate. As I have stated 2 times already, they did not need to qualify for the world cup because they are the host nation. This rule for qualification is different from every single other country, who HAS to qualify.

Yes but we all know that the host nation has a team that is very representative in soccer. This is one of the unwritten laws of FIFA when the host nation gets chosen. It is as simple as that.

Besides, why do you always talk about how germany should not have been qualified based upon their results ? One cannot say this if you look at the FIFA rules which you just stated in your last post.

Hey, maybe the German team just did not give it it's all because they did not care about gettin' selected. Maybe the pressure was not there. Well, it is there now and look at how their results have changed.


marlon

 

[Anttech]

yeh I suppose they were resting during Euro 2004 also...

Lets wait and see Marlon, Germany haven't had a stiff test yet... They will soon, if they beat Arg, I will retract what I said...

 

[marlon]

Ohh so they weren't trying for euro2004? LOL

Huh, when did i ever say that ?

The Team they had at 2004 is closer to the same team this year, than that of the worldcup 2002.

Yeah right

Didnt England do good in 1966??

Yeah but who was the host country ? Maybe, they shouldn't have been selected in the first place because their pre-WC-results were quite poor

Besides, if you want to talk about history : didn't Germany perform a bit better than the UK in the entire WCup past ?

marlon

 

[marlon]

yeh I suppose they were resting during Euro 2004 also...

Ohh man, c'mon, no reason to be so cynical.

Lets wait and see Marlon, Germany haven't had a stiff test yet...

True but that does not mean that they have a bad team or that they should not be at the place where they are right now.

They will soon, if they beat Arg, I will retract what I said...

You will retract what you said ? But this is the point i don't get : the result against Argentina has nothing to do with what we are talking about.

So you can "retract all you want", the main point stays the same.

regards
marlon

 

[Anttech]

The UK has never played in the world cup... Need to brush up on your geography matey :)

BTW: are you trying to say that the DE team of 2002 is closer to the team playing now than that of 2004?

 

[Anttech]

You will retract what you said ? But this is the point i don't get : the result against Argentina has nothing to do with what we are talking about.

Seems you don't get anything I am saying to you...

It has everything to do with what I am talking about.. For the bloody last time:

GERMANY HAVENT BEAT A TOP FLIGHT TEAM SINCE BEFORE EURO2004. IN THIS WORLD CUP THEY HAVE NOT COME ACROSS A TOP FLIGHT TEAM. THEY WILL NOW AGAINST ARG. YOU SEEM TO THINK THIS FACT IS IRRELEVENT, I THINK IT IS HIGHLY RELEVENT. WE WILL SEE...

 

[marlon]

The UK has never played in the world cup... Need to brush up on your geography matey :)

Matey, you know very well what i am talking about. It is not my fault that there is a UK, a Great Brittain and England...all i see is just an island with a very bad kitchen and a contra-European attitude. Anyhow...

BTW: are you trying to say that the DE team of 2002 is closer to the team playing now than that of 2004?

What do you mean by "closer"... As i understood it, "closer" means quality in play right ? If so, than YES the 2002 team is closer to this team than the 2004 team. This has nothing to do with "the same people" or whatever, but with "evoloving and getting THAT good that you are worldchampion-worthy"...alstublieft

regards
marlon

 

[marlon]

Seems you don't get anything I am saying to you...

It has everything to do with what I am talking about.. For the bloody last time:

GERMANY HAVENT BEAT A TOP FLIGHT TEAM SINCE BEFORE EURO2004. IN THIS WORLD CUP THEY HAVE NOT COME ACROSS A TOP FLIGHT TEAM. THEY WILL NOW AGAINST ARG. YOU SEEM TO THINK THIS FACT IS IRRELEVENT, I THINK IT IS HIGHLY RELEVENT. WE WILL SEE...

NO NO NO.

JUST BECAUSE GERMANY DID NOT BEAT A TOP TEAM YET DOES NOT MEAN YOU CAN DEGRADE THEM LIKE YOU DO FOR WHATEVER MYSTERIOUS REASON. IT ALSO DOES NOT MEAN THAT THEY ARE NOT ABLE TO BEAT A TOP TEAM. STOP LOOKING IN THE PAST AND LOOK TO THE FUTURE. JEEEEZUUS. WE HAVE HAD SO MANY TOP TEAMS LOSING AGAINST SMALLER, LOWER RANKED TEAMS AND YOU DO NOT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT THAT ?

marlon

 

[Anttech]

No by closer I mean the personel...*sigh*

Matey, you know very well what i am talking about. It is not my fault that there is a UK, a Great Brittain and England...all i see is just an island with a very bad kitchen and a contra-European attitude. Anyhow...

LOL.. But it is obviously your fault that you don't know the difference between the political state and countries within the aggrements..

Anyway so when is France your home nation playing? (annoyed yet?

 

[Anttech]

JUST BECAUSE GERMANY DID NOT BEAT A TOP TEAM YET DOES NOT MEAN YOU CAN DEGRADE THEM LIKE YOU DO FOR WHATEVER MYSTERIOUS REASON. WE HAVE HAD SO MANY TOP TEAMS LOSING AGAINST SMALLER, LOWER RANKED TEAMS AND YOU DO NOT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT THAT ?

Examples please?

Ohh yeh that would be costa rica getting beaten by Germany, is what you are referring too.. I would aggree there

 

[marlon]

No by closer I mean the personel...*sigh*

No reason to get all cranky just because you are not able to impose your "opinion".

LOL.. But it is obviously your fault that you don't know the difference between the political state and countries within the aggrements..

Obviously, but that does not imply that you knew exactly what i was referring to (ie England). Don't go changing the subject just because you ...

Anyway so when is France your home nation playing? (annoyed yet?

Again, don't go changing the subject just because you ...

marlon

 

[marlon]

Ohh yeh that would be costa rica getting beaten by Germany, is what you are referring too.. I would aggree there

So you are saying that Costa Rica is the big team and germany is the small team ?

And ,please, don't tell me that you cannot find one single example where a big team lost or tied against a smaller team ? Have you watched any soccer the last two/three years ?

marlon

 

[Anttech]

Obviously, but that does not imply that you knew exactly what i was referring to (ie England). Don't go changing the subject just because you ...

I didnt know what you were referring to, Wales N.Ireland Scotland, and England have all played in the world cup, did you mean there accumulative success? or did you mean 1 of the countries within the Political Union?

 

[marlon]

I didnt know what you were referring to, Wales N.Ireland Scotland, and England have all played in the world cup, did you mean there accumulative success? or did you mean 1 of the countries within the Political Union?

I am talking about the team in which there is now a guy called Beckham. Yeah, THAT team...the one i mentioned in my last reference.

marlon

 

[Anttech]

Ok England... Yes German have a beter track record than England. Actually they have the second best track record behind Brazil.

I am still waiting for the BIG upsets you have been talking about in this world cup?

 

[marlon]

Ok England... Yes German have a beter track record than England. Actually they have the second best track record behind Brazil.

I am still waiting for the BIG upsets you have been talking about in this world cup?

First of all, i am not only talking about this world cup but all other competitions as well.

In this WC : Italy versus the USA

marlon

edit : and i am still not getting your example of Germany and Costa Rica...especially within the context of bigger teams losing against smaller teams

 

[Anttech]

That was Sacarism... And I thought you were talking about this world cup, or at least the qualifiers... Since you weren't I see not relevency to this arguement, unless you are implying that Germany been beaten or drawing with most top flight European teams since Euro2004, is just that: Germany the big team been beaten by the smaller teams in Europe.

A team is as big as its players, name me the 'World class' players in the german team?

1 springs to mind Ballack, who is playing very well right now.. Cant think of any others who are 'world class' (And are proven to be)

Spain, Portugal, France, Netherlands, (Dare I say it) England, Czech Republic, Italy. All have numerous recognised names that one would say are, 'World class' german have 3 maybe... But can u name them?

 

[J77]

A team may be as big as it players but it isn't as good as.

Klose and Polandski (sp?) look brilliant so far.

btw: Lehmann and Kahn should be considered world-class.

This argument is going round in circles.

Has it anything to do with England any more?

 

[marlon]

A team is as big as its players, name me the 'World class' players in the german team?

1 springs to mind Ballack, who is playing very well right now.. Cant think of any others who are 'world class' (And are proven to be)

Well these types of arguments completely contradict with the very nature of the soccer game. A world class TEAM does not need wrold class players. It needs players that can work together in a "world class manner". A good team just needs one world class player, like Ballack or Klose and then many good players that are well adjusted to each other. Another example is the Argentina of Maradonna or the Napoli of Maradonna. An example of the "opposite not working" is Real Madrid. I think such examples do not need any further elaboration.

Secondly, YES my argument of "big teams versus small teams" is still relevant even if you we look at other competitions as well. What i wanted to explain is that you cannot just say germany is bad because they have not yet played and beaten a big team. There have been many big teams that were beaten by smaller teams. Does that make those big teams small ? No it does NOT. Whether such events occurred in this world cup or not is not relevant because it is the general underlying principle that i wanted to outline.

marlon

edit

Spain, Portugal, France, Netherlands, (Dare I say it) England, Czech Republic, Italy. All have numerous recognised names that one would say are, 'World class' german have 3 maybe... But can u name them?

Yeah, and look how France is playing
Yeah, and look how England is playing (besides, what top players here ?)
Yeah, and look how Italy is playing (what big team have they beaten yet ?)
Yeah, and look how Holland is playing (they are already out, although they are the only team in your list with true potential towards the future)

marlon

 

[marlon]

A team may be as big as it players but it isn't as good as.

Klose and Polandski (sp?) look brilliant so far.

btw: Lehmann and Kahn should be considered world-class.

CORRECTAMUNDO

marlon

 

[Anttech]

Another example is the Argentina of Maradonna or the Napoli of Maradonna. An example of the "opposite not working" is Real Madrid. I think such examples do not need any further elaboration.

You think wrong then, Real Madrid's problem isn't that they have world class players, it's that they don't play well together, and have ZZ as the play maker who is past his prime. Barcelona conridict what you just said.. World class and world beaters..

Secondly, YES my argument of "big teams versus small teams" is still relevant even if you we look at other competitions as well. What i wanted to explain is that you cannot just say germany is bad because they have not yet played and beaten a big team. There have been many big teams that were beaten by smaller teams. Does that make those big teams small ? No it does NOT. Whether such events occurred in this world cup or not is not relevant because it is the general underlying principle that i wanted to outline.

What has that got to do with anything?

A team may be as big as it players but it isn't as good as.

Klose and Polandski (sp?) look brilliant so far.

btw: Lehmann and Kahn should be considered world-class.

LOOK let's go right back to the begining.

German per popular oppinion in the football press (Bar Mr viva La France here[joking mate]) are playing above what was expected from them, and what should be expected looking at there team sheet. They are not a very good team (stats) and are over performing, they still have to be tested regardless... If they win I will retract what I have said. ANYWAY let's not forget that its being played IN GERMANY

 

[Anttech]

I never said a good team needs world class players.. But it helps... Hell Greece won the Euro )))))))) (But we have some great players)

 

[marlon]

You think wrong then, Real Madrid's problem isn't that they have world class players, it's that they don't play well together,

But this is exactly what i was trying to tell you. YOU were the one who was just talking about world class players, I was the one brining in the argument of "good team play". It seems to me that the content of your own words changes with every post. It is very difficult (but not impossible, though) to keep track of that.

What has that got to do with anything?

What do you mean ?

German per popular oppinion in the football press (Bar Mr viva La France here[joking mate]) are playing above what was expected from them, and what should be expected looking at there team sheet. They are not a very good team (stats) and are over performing, they still have to be tested regardless... If they win I will retract what I have said. ANYWAY let's not forget that its being played IN GERMANY

Are we going to start all over again ?

Ok, once more, what you state here is IRRELEVANT AND UNTRUE...(the rest of my answer can be read from my second post in this thread on)

marlon

 

[Anttech]

But this is exactly what i was trying to tell you. YOU were the one who was just talking about world class players, I was the one brining in the argument of "good team play". It seems to me that the content of your own words changes with every post. It is very difficult (but not impossible, though) to keep track of that.

kettle calling the pot black... I THINK YOU WILL FIND THIS IS EXACTLY THE WAY YOU HAVE BEEN DEGRADING THIS THREAD. I have not changed my stance..

Ok, once more, what you state here is IRRELEVANT AND UNTRU

LOL Its hard FACT... Irrelevent IN YOUR OPPINION

But this is exactly what i was trying to tell you.

In future if you are trying to tell something to someone, it would be preferable if you actually say that...

madness... You are impossible

 

[shmoe]

Yes but we all know that the host nation has a team that is very representative in soccer. This is one of the unwritten laws of FIFA when the host nation gets chosen. It is as simple as that.

USA '94, Korea/Japan 2002, South Africa 2010... not exactly the faces of football These are more choosen to spread the game around than by the hosts prowess.

Hey, maybe the German team just did not give it it's all because they did not care about gettin' selected. Maybe the pressure was not there. Well, it is there now and look at how their results have changed.

I'd agree with that. They weren't really under the pressure of qualify or die, so who knows if they would have made it through.

They have played quite well so far, very entertaining. "World Class" player count is totally irrelevant when it comes to the Germans, 2002 a great example.


Some England comments : can anyone defend Svens last minute substitution of Gerrard? That seemed nuts. I think it's a mistake that Wolcott hasn't been played yet (given that he's already here, but it's too late to get into that). If he couldn't be trusted against any of their relatively weak opponents so far, how much confidence could he have if he has to play against Portugal?