Entangled Particle Communication (again)

[wawenspop]

Referring to this paper: http://arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/0611109 it appears that experiments were performed with correlation effects between entangled particles separated spatially (in the form of TLD cystals). There is funding available for this avenue of research especially in the commercial arena of space entrepreneurship.

Can someone comment on the authenticity of such claims. I understand there are theoretical objections but experiment says something else and it must be worth pursuing if these experiments are valid.

 

[jambaugh]

The company website: http://www.e-quantic.com/index.html" reads to me like an investment scam but they could just be keeping their cards close to their vest. Look at the language of their disclaimer and then look at the apparent intent of their website. Obviously (to me) they are looking for private venture capital in contradiction to their legal disclaimer. It reminds me very much of an investment scam I studied once involving an intentional misrepresentation of engine/heat-pump efficiencies.

This having been said, let me study the claimed effect in detail if I have the time. I am puzzled by one thing. The company claims and the graphs seem to indicate that actual FTL signaling is occurring e.g. the French sample indicated when the oven was on in Baton Rouge.

However the wording suggests that only the higher correlation indicates this information. That is to say one can determine when the oven was turned on only by looking at both samples and counting correlations. This latter case would be consistent with QM and doesn't indicate any FTL signaling either overtly or via some inaccessable hidden variable channels. Further there would be no practical application except remote correlation of random numbers for private key encryption... and then only if the fidelity could be greatly improved.

 

[DrChinese]

Referring to this paper: http://arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/0611109 it appears that experiments were performed with correlation effects between entangled particles separated spatially (in the form of TLD cystals). There is funding available for this avenue of research especially in the commercial arena of space entrepreneurship.

Can someone comment on the authenticity of such claims. I understand there are theoretical objections but experiment says something else and it must be worth pursuing if these experiments are valid.

Fascinating stuff. Makes sense to me although I admit I have never heard of this technique previously. I guess this is a record for preserving entanglement and then observing it.

There are other experiments in which the state of a entangled photon is stored in a solid and later retrieved.

Phase Locked Photon Echoes for Near-Perfect Retrieval Efficiency and Extended Storage Time

 

[DrChinese]

The company website: http://www.e-quantic.com/index.html" reads to me like an investment scam but they could just be keeping their cards close to their vest. Look at the language of their disclaimer and then look at the apparent intent of their website. Obviously (to me) they are looking for private venture capital in contradiction to their legal disclaimer. It reminds me very much of an investment scam I studied once involving an intentional misrepresentation of engine/heat-pump efficiencies.

This having been said, let me study the claimed effect in detail if I have the time. I am puzzled by one thing. The company claims and the graphs seem to indicate that actual FTL signaling is occurring e.g. the French sample indicated when the oven was on in Baton Rouge.

However the wording suggests that only the higher correlation indicates this information. That is to say one can determine when the oven was turned on only by looking at both samples and counting correlations. This latter case would be consistent with QM and doesn't indicate any FTL signaling either overtly or via some inaccessable hidden variable channels. Further there would be no practical application except remote correlation of random numbers for private key encryption... and then only if the fidelity could be greatly improved.

You're right, flaky website. I didn't get the part about being able to determine the time of oven being turned on either. Neither of the authors seems to have written anything else. The only part that matches theory is the ability to store an entangled state, which is perfectly reasonable even if difficult to achieve in practical applications.

 

[Q-reeus]

Fascinating stuff. Makes sense to me although I admit I have never heard of this technique previously...

Memory fading a little? Try here: https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=250578 entry #5!

 

[DrChinese]

Memory fading a little? Try here: https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=250578 entry #5!

More than a little fading going on over here, Q-reeus!

 

[Q-reeus]

More than a little fading going on over here, Q-reeus!

Well we all tend to have such moments. Only wish I could get excited about a 'cutting edge technology' that requires ovens to be switched on and off every so many minutes in order to at best transmit one bit!

 

[DrChinese]

By the way, ZapperZ ultimately ended up locking that thread because the citation was not suitable. I do note that the authors have applied for a patent, but cannot determine if one was granted.

 

[wawenspop]

Isn't there some advantage to having instant 'knowledge' over many thousands of miles?

If a remote camera took pictures of objects based what correlations were observed in entangled particles, then we would know which photos were taken remotely by measuring the correlations of the partner entangled particles on earth. There must be some advantage to that surely? That 'knowledge' would be known instantly and could not possibly be known without correlated entangled states. We know what the camera does at the instant it does it even though there may be minutes actual time difference between the locations.

If we knew that the remote camera took photos of Mars and Venus and not Saturn and Jupiter then we could take some useful action here on Earth without waiting for radio signals to inform us later what pictures were taken. Am I talking sense here, or have I gone off a cliff of insanity?

I cannot believe that is just worthless knowledge.

 

[DrChinese]

Isn't there some advantage to having instant 'knowledge' over many thousands of miles?

...

I cannot believe that is just worthless knowledge.

I certainly reject the idea that this technique can be used for FTL communication. That is no truer here than with any entangled system. Such would violate the HUP. Can't beat the HUP.

 

[wawenspop]

I agree that HUP cannot be beaten, but instant knowledge is absolutely possible. So why cannot it be useful in a practical context? (please read my example above)

 

[DrChinese]

I agree that HUP cannot be beaten, but instant knowledge is absolutely possible. So why cannot it be useful in a practical context? (please read my example above)

Because I will instantly know something which is random, and there will be nothing instantly for me to correlate it with.

 

[wawenspop]

Because I will instantly know something which is random, and there will be nothing instantly for me to correlate it with.

But if a remote camera takes photos based on the random correlation I would *know* which photos it had taken instantly. eg Mars and Venus and not Saturn and Jupiter. Surely this would be humanly useful for me to know this. I could make headlines correctly in Newspapers. I could be on a fools mission here, but why?

 

[DrChinese]

But if a remote camera takes photos based on the random correlation I would *know* which photos it had taken instantly. eg Mars and Venus and not Saturn and Jupiter. Surely this would be humanly useful for me to know this. I could make headlines correctly in Newspapers. I could be on a fools mission here, but why?

Great, now you know something about a bunch of random photos. I wouldn't call that exactly newsworthy.

In other words, how useful is learning that the following is occurring at a distant spot:

Took picture of Saturn
Took picture of Mars
Took picture of Saturn
Took picture of Saturn
Took picture of Mars
Took picture of Saturn
Took picture of Mars
Took picture of Mars
Took picture of Mars
Took picture of Saturn
Took picture of Mars
Took picture of Saturn
Took picture of Saturn
Took picture of Mars
Took picture of Saturn
Took picture of Mars

But maybe you find this more useful than I do.

 

[jambaugh]

Isn't there some advantage to having instant 'knowledge' over many thousands of miles?

If a remote camera took pictures of objects based what correlations were observed in entangled particles, then we would know which photos were taken remotely by measuring the correlations of the partner entangled particles on earth. There must be some advantage to that surely? That 'knowledge' would be known instantly and could not possibly be known without correlated entangled states. We know what the camera does at the instant it does it even though there may be minutes actual time difference between the locations.

If we knew that the remote camera took photos of Mars and Venus and not Saturn and Jupiter then we could take some useful action here on Earth without waiting for radio signals to inform us later what pictures were taken. Am I talking sense here, or have I gone off a cliff of insanity?

I cannot believe that is just worthless knowledge.

Since getting that correlation involves transporting the entangle pairs to the two locations, why not just transport a classical, classically correlated random list of picture choices. Why go to all the trouble to use quantum entangled states? The knowledge isn't worthless, the method is...(in your example).

 

[Gordon Watson]

Referring to this paper: http://arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/0611109 it appears that experiments were performed with correlation effects between entangled particles separated spatially (in the form of TLD cystals). There is funding available for this avenue of research especially in the commercial arena of space entrepreneurship.

Can someone comment on the authenticity of such claims. I understand there are theoretical objections but experiment says something else and it must be worth pursuing if these experiments are valid.

..

Please excuse my bias here; I simply do not, and cannot, believe it:

If this experiment is right, I am wrong!

If I am right, this experiment is nonsense; imho.

Nevertheless: In my view, the reported results might be in agreement with the world-view of those who take non-locality (AAAD) and FTL to be physical facts.

Nothing more reported since 2006?

Nothing published in recognized Journal?

Also:

PS: arXiv.org Search Results

1. Desbrandes:
The URL for this search is http://arxiv.org/find/grp_physics/1/au:+Desbrandes_Robert/0/1/0/all/0/1

Showing results 1 through 3 (of 3 total) for au:Desbrandes_Robert

1. arXiv:quant-ph/0611109 [pdf]
Intercontinental quantum liaisons between entangled electrons in ion traps of thermoluminescent crystals
Robert Desbrandes, Daniel Van Gent
Subjects: Quantum Physics (quant-ph)
2. arXiv:cond-mat/0304659 [src]
Superconductor quantum fluid and gravitation field: Can a quantum fluid shield a gravitational field?
Robert Desbrandes
Comments: This paper has been withdrawn
Subjects: Condensed Matter (cond-mat)
3. arXiv:cond-mat/0303647 [src]
Interaction of superconductor quantum fluid with gravity field
Robert Desbrandes
Comments: This paper has been withdrawn
Subjects: Superconductivity (cond-mat.supr-con)

2. Van Gent:
The URL for this search is http://arxiv.org/find/grp_physics/1/au:+Van_Gent_Daniel/0/1/0/all/0/1

Showing results 1 through 3 (of 3 total) for au:Van_Gent_Daniel

1. arXiv:quant-ph/0611109 [pdf]
Intercontinental quantum liaisons between entangled electrons in ion traps of thermoluminescent crystals
Robert Desbrandes, Daniel Van Gent
Subjects: Quantum Physics (quant-ph)
2. arXiv:nucl-ex/0411050 [pdf]
Remote Stimulated Triggering of Quantum Entangled Nuclear Metastable States of 115mIn
Daniel L. Van Gent
Comments: This paper was written in conjunction with Dr. Robert Desbrandes, Prof. Emeritus at Louisiana State University
Subjects: Nuclear Experiment (nucl-ex)
3. arXiv:nucl-ex/0411047 [pdf]
Induced Quantum Entanglement of Nuclear Metastable States of 115In
Daniel L. Van Gent
Comments: This paper was written in collaboration with Dr. Robert Desbrandes, Prof. Emeritus, Louisiana State University
Subjects: Nuclear Experiment (nucl-ex)

.........
http://www.e-quantic.com/NEWS/ANN/ANN_003.htm Remote Triggering of Quantum Entangled Photoluminescent Molecules

GIVARLAIS, March 7, 2005 – E-Quantic Communications, SARL-ACV reports the first remote triggering of Quantum Entangled Photoluminescent Molecules.

Professor Robert Desbrandes and Professor Daniel L. Van Gent have implemented the first elementary distant quantum liaison with Quantum Entangled Photoluminescent Molecules:

Two samples of Strontium Aluminate pigments commonly used in photoluminescent signals were illuminated together with the ultra violet (UV) light from a Mercury lamp. One sample was placed under a light detector and the other, distant of 4 m, was illuminated periodically with an infra red (IR) beam. A marked decrease in the luminosity of the sample under the light detector was measured every time that the IR light was turned on. A previous study of the excited photoluminescent materials during IR illumination had shown a strong and rapid “killing” of the light emission.

These results are conform to the entanglement theory of Quantum Mechanics (Q M) that stipulates that when two particles are emitted by the same entity they are entangled. In our case, the UV beam from a Mercury lamp is made of entangled photons resulting from a cascade and their entanglement is swapped to some valence electrons of the samples. Entangled electrons are then captured in the sample traps and are released at ambient temperature. Entanglement is a “quantum liaison” between particles that extend to any distance, through any medium. According to QM, the collapse of this liaison is instantaneous.

Robert Desbrandes and Daniel L Van Gent, “Remote Stimulated Triggering of Quantum Entangled Photoluminescent Molecules of Strontium Aluminate, ArXiv, physics/0503052.”

Complete text can be seen in English in:
http://www.arxiv.org/ftp/physics/papers/0503/0503052.pdf

Disclaimer: IMPORTANT NOTICE APPLICABLE TO ALL INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS DOCUMENT :
Present or future associates of the company and any concerned third party are advised that this document may contain forward-looking statements. Such forward-looking statements may be identified in this document in the present tenses as well as in the conditional tenses. Various risk factors may influence the achievement of these forward-looking statements.

.............

PPS: My sincere apologies for hastily posting this during a meeting: that habit stops today!

BUT: Today, being 1 April here, suggests my best explanation of the experiment. Of course, I could be wrong. GW

 

[wawenspop]

Since getting that correlation involves transporting the entangle pairs to the two locations, why not just transport a classical, classically correlated random list of picture choices. Why go to all the trouble to use quantum entangled states? The knowledge isn't worthless, the method is...(in your example).

Classically correlated random list would not 'transmit' over the distance between Earth and Mars? But an entangled pair would indeed (I assume).
Say a Mars space station lottery winner was drawn using correlated entangled states. The winning number of the lucky Mars spaceman would then be known on Mars and Earth simultaneously. A TV broadcast could go out announcing the lottery winner 20 minutes before a radio signal arrived from Mars.

Now that is not completely useless knowledge.

Knowing random events at a great distance - exactly - seems deeply philosophical and an essential part of the universe. Completely random outcomes are the one thing that are transmitted exactly and instantly... wow.