Enthelpy chage for the production of ethanol

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the calculation of the enthalpy change for the production of ethanol, focusing on the standard enthalpy of formation and the conversion of volume to mass and moles. Participants explore various approaches to determine the enthalpy change and clarify the definitions and representations of chemical species involved.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant calculates the enthalpy change using a volume of ethanol but finds their result does not match the expected value.
  • Another participant suggests checking the volume conversion, indicating potential errors in the initial calculations.
  • After correcting the volume, a participant recalculates the moles of ethanol and still finds a discrepancy with the expected enthalpy change.
  • A question is raised about the definition of standard enthalpy of formation, indicating a need for clarification on this concept.
  • Participants discuss the reaction involving ethylene and water to produce ethanol, with some expressing uncertainty about the notation used for chemical species.
  • Clarifications are provided regarding the notation for double bonds in chemical formulas, addressing misunderstandings about the representation of compounds.
  • Some participants express confusion about the reagents and how they contribute to the enthalpy change calculation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

There is no consensus on the correct approach to calculating the enthalpy change, as multiple competing views and calculations are presented. Participants express differing opinions on the notation and definitions used in the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight potential limitations in their calculations, including volume conversion errors and misunderstandings regarding chemical notation. The discussion remains open-ended with unresolved aspects regarding the enthalpy change and the definitions of the chemical species involved.

DottZakapa
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Homework Statement
Calculate the standard enthalpy change related to the production of 2.00L of ethanol(##CH_3CH_2OH##, ##d=0,79\frac {g}{cm^3} ##)through the reaction
##CH_{2(g)}+H_2O_{l}->CH_3CH_2OH_{(l)}##
Relevant Equations
thermochemistry
from table the standard enthalpy of ethanol is ##\Delta H°=-277 \frac{KJ}{mol}##

the grams of ethanol are

##0,002 cm^3*0,79\frac {g}{cm^3}=1,58*10^{-3}g##

and the moles are

##\frac{1,58*10^{-3}g}{(24,02+16,00+6,06)\frac g {mol}}= 3,43*10^{-5}##mol

By proportionality, having already the standard enthalpy for 1 mol of ethanol, the enthalpy change wil be
## 3,43*10^{-5}*-277 \frac{KJ}{mol}##=

is this procedure correct? result doesn't match book expected result. Any help?
 
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Check volume conversion.
 
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Borek said:
Check volume conversion.
corrected but still doesn't match -1,5*10^3 KJ :confused:
from table the standard enthalpy of ethanol is ##\Delta H°=-277 \frac{KJ}{mol}##

the grams of ethanol are

##2000 cm^3*0,79\frac {g}{cm^3}=1580g##

and the moles are

##\frac{1580g}{(24,02+16,00+6,06)\frac g {mol}}= 34,3##mol

By proportionality, having already the standard enthalpy for 1 mol of ethanol, the enthalpy change wil be
## 34,3*-277 \frac{KJ}{mol}##=-9501.1= -9,5*10^3 KJ

still far away from expected -1,5*10^3 KJ
 
How is standard enthalpy of formation defined?
 
DottZakapa said:
corrected but still doesn't match -1,5*10^3 KJ :confused:
from table the standard enthalpy of ethanol is ##\Delta H°=-277 \frac{KJ}{mol}##

the grams of ethanol are

##2000 cm^3*0,79\frac {g}{cm^3}=1580g##

and the moles are

##\frac{1580g}{(24,02+16,00+6,06)\frac g {mol}}= 34,3##mol

By proportionality, having already the standard enthalpy for 1 mol of ethanol, the enthalpy change wil be
## 34,3*-277 \frac{KJ}{mol}##=-9501.1= -9,5*10^3 KJ

still far away from expected -1,5*10^3 KJ
Borek said:
How is standard enthalpy of formation defined?
I've also tried like this
##\Delta H°_{ethanol}=-277\frac{KJ}{mol}##
##\Delta H°_{H_2O_{(l)}}=-285,8 \frac{KJ}{mol}##
##\Delta H°_R=\sum \Delta H°_{products}-\sum \Delta H°_{reagents}##=
##\Delta H°_R= (-277\frac{KJ}{mol})-(-285,8 \frac{KJ}{mol})= 8,8##
but i think, being positive si not the correct result.

for what concerns ## CH_2 ## I have no values on my table, i thought then, it does not contribute, but a this point i am making some mistake somewhere, i don't knw how to deal with the reagents, expecially why is written ## CH_2= CH_2 + H_2O_{(l)} -> ## :oldconfused:
 
Maybe, the following reaction and its standard enthalpy of reaction are meant:

##C_2H_4(g)+H_2O(l)\to CH_3CH_2OH(l)##
 
Lord Jestocost said:
Maybe, the following reaction and its standard enthalpy of reaction are meant:

##C_2H_4(g)+H_2O(l)\to CH_3CH_2OH(l)##
thank you now it makes more sense, all works perfectly.
Are we sure is like that ? ##CH_2= CH_2 + H_2O_{(l)} -> ## so this is a way of writing that or is just a typo? never seen before such writing
 
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The = indicates a double bond between the two carbon atoms of C2H4. It is not an equals sign.
 
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mjc123 said:
The = indicates a double bond between the two carbon atoms of C2H4. It is not an equals sign.
o ok, thank you, didn't know it. Thanks
 
  • #10
Ah, I though CH2 is just a typo and the question really meant starting from CO2/H2O.
 
  • #11
Borek said:
Ah, I though CH2 is just a typo and the question really meant starting from CO2/H2O.

🤷‍♂️ results coincide, so i guess he is right
 
  • #12
Yes, once you wrote it as CH2=CH2 the meaning is unambiguous and clear.
 
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