Enthelpy of formation at non standard conditions

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the enthalpy of formation for Ga2O3 and Ga2O at low pressure (ultra high vacuum) and high temperature. Participants explore methods to obtain enthalpy values under these conditions, including the use of equations and PVT relations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Julius inquires about resources for enthalpy-pressure diagrams for Ga2O3 and Ga2O and suggests calculating enthalpy from standard conditions using a specific equation, noting the need for a PVT relation.
  • One participant suggests that libraries may be a good starting point for finding data and diagrams, emphasizing the role of librarians in locating information.
  • Another participant mentions that if the Ga compounds are solid at the given temperature and pressure, the volume change due to pressure may be negligible. They also state that if the compounds are gaseous, the ideal gas law could apply well at low pressure and high temperature.
  • Julius acknowledges the applicability of the ideal gas law at low pressures but questions the need for another PVT relation starting from standard atmospheric pressure.
  • A later reply asserts that at high temperatures, the need for a different PVT relation may not be necessary, as gases behave ideally at standard conditions.
  • One participant reflects on the concept of the standard state for gases, noting that it is based on the assumption of ideal behavior at low pressure extrapolated to 1 atmosphere, which may not be directly relevant to the specific case discussed.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the necessity of additional PVT relations and the relevance of ideal gas behavior, indicating that multiple competing perspectives remain without clear consensus.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved assumptions regarding the behavior of Ga2O3 and Ga2O under specified conditions, as well as the applicability of various equations and models in this context.

Julius
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Hi,

I want to know the enthalpy of formation of Ga2O3 and Ga2O at low pressure (ultra high vacuum) and high temperature.

Temperature seems easy, but I'm not sure how to get the enthalpy values for low pressures.

Does anyone know if there are books with enthalpy - pressure diagrams of these compounds?

It should be also possible to calculate it from the value at atandard conditions using ∂H/∂P=(V−T∂/V∂T)dP, but one needs a PVT relation. For Ga2O maybe the van der Waals equation for non-ideal gases? And for Ga2O3?

Cheers,
Julius
 
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When it comes to data and diagrams, best starting point is often a library - librarians are trained to know where to look for information (they may not know what it means, but they know where to look for it ;) ).
 
If the Ga compounds are solid at the T and p in question, you can probably neglect them, as ##\int V dp## is very small due to V being small.
If they are gaseous, they are certainly described well by the ideal gas law which works best at low p and high T. So the pressure dependence vanishes, too, as ##V-T \partial V/\partial T=0## for an ideal gas.
 
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Thank you for the replies! :)

Yes, at low pressures I can use the ideal gas law, but I need to start from standard atmosphere pressure, so I think i still need an other PVT relation, right?
 
No, as T is high
 
I pondered about this question a bit more and there occurred something to me: For gasses, the standard state is a hypothetical state where the ideal behaviour at infinitely low pressure is extrapolated to 1 atmosphere.
So you can assume ideal behaviour for the gas by definition.
This is not very relevant in your case as gasses at standard pressure and temperature usually behave quite ideally.
 

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