Entropy/enthelpy/gibbs for vaporization of water

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the thermodynamic calculations related to the vaporization of water at 95 degrees Celsius and 1 atm pressure. Participants are exploring the concepts of entropy, enthalpy, and Gibbs free energy in the context of a quiz question from a physical chemistry class. The focus includes the interpretation of the question, the steps involved in the calculations, and the underlying thermodynamic principles.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express confusion about the phase transition of liquid water to gas at 95 degrees Celsius, questioning whether the question is poorly worded or if the transition can occur at that temperature.
  • There is a discussion about the boiling point of water being 100 degrees Celsius, but others point out that evaporation can occur at lower temperatures.
  • Participants discuss the need for a multi-step approach to calculate thermodynamic properties, suggesting that the process involves heating water from 95 to 100 degrees, the phase transition, and then cooling back to 95 degrees.
  • One participant emphasizes the importance of understanding the concept of path independence in thermodynamic calculations, questioning how the values can be calculated without direct contributions from evaporation at 95 degrees Celsius.
  • There are requests for clarification on the rationale behind the steps taken in the solution, particularly regarding the path-dependent nature of the calculations and the significance of each step in the overall process.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that there is confusion regarding the question's wording and the concept of phase transitions at temperatures below boiling. However, multiple competing views remain about the interpretation of the process and the steps involved in the calculations.

Contextual Notes

Some limitations in the discussion include missing assumptions about the evaporation process at 95 degrees Celsius, the dependence on specific definitions of thermodynamic properties, and unresolved mathematical steps in the calculations presented.

Puchinita5
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This is a question from a quiz in my physical chemistry class

For 1 mole of H20, calculate \Delta{S_{sys}}, \Delta{S_{surr}},
\Delta{S_{univ}}, and \Delta{G_{sys}} for the following transition at 1 atm pressure and 95 degrees celsius

H20 (l) ---------> H20 (g) Right now, what I'm confused about is...liquid water doesn't turn into a gas at 95 degrees at 1 atm (it's 100 degrees no?), so why would this reaction occur at all?

Is it perhaps just poorly worded? Maybe he meant to say that it STARTS at 95 degrees but will be heated to 100 degrees?

Homework Statement


Homework Equations


The Attempt at a Solution

 
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Oh, and looking at the solution to this, there are three steps, 1 from 95-100, the transition, and one from 100 to 95! I would never have thought to have those steps because I thought T was constant.

Is it just a poorly worded question, or does this reaction actually happen at 95 degrees and I'm just totally missing the concept?
 
Puchinita5 said:
Right now, what I'm confused about is...liquid water doesn't turn into a gas at 95 degrees at 1 atm (it's 100 degrees no?),

100 deg C is a boiling point, but water evaporates at lower temperatures as well.
 
Puchinita5 said:
Oh, and looking at the solution to this, there are three steps, 1 from 95-100, the transition, and one from 100 to 95! I would never have thought to have those steps because I thought T was constant.

Is it just a poorly worded question, or does this reaction actually happen at 95 degrees and I'm just totally missing the concept?
I think the question means the process at 95 Celsius. But since you are (supposedly) not given the evaporation contribution at 95 Celsius you must calculate a different path from the initial state (liquid water at 95 Celsius) to the final state (gaseous water at 95 Celsius). This actually only makes sense if the values you are supposed to calculate are path-independent, and I strongly suggest you try to understand if and possibly why they are. Just our of curiosity: what are the results?
 
Here is the solution...I just don't understand why all these things were done. If you could explain the whole "path" thing because that is a concept I definitely don't really get and might be why I don't understand this solution.

There are some missing parts to the solution where I couldn't read what the professor wrote. But for the most part this is all of it...

These were given also:
\Delta{H_{fH20(l)}}=-285.8 kJ/mol
\Delta{H_{fH20(g)}}=-241.8 kJ/mol
C_{pm}H20(l)=75.29 J/Kmol
C_{pm}H20(g)=33.58 J/Kmol

The solution was given in three steps:
1)
\Delta{H1}=Cp\Delta{T}=75.29 J/Kmol*(373K-368K)=376.5J

\Delta{S1}=Cp*ln(T2/T1)=75.29 J/Kmol*ln(373K/368K)=1.02J

2)

\Delta{H2}=\Delta{H_{fH20(g)_{373}}} - \Delta{H_{fH20(l)_{373}}}=?

\Delta{H_{f(373)}}=Cp(373-298)+ \Delta{H_{f(298)}}=?

\Delta{H2}= -24.8 kJ+285.8 kJ=44,000J

\Delta{S2}=\Delta{H2}/373 =44,000J/373=117.96 J/K

3)

\Delta{H3}=33.58 J/K*(368-373)=-168 J

\Delta{S3}=33.58 J/K*ln(368/373)= -.453 J

\Delta{HTotal}=44.208 J

\Delta{STotal}=118.5 J

\Delta{GTotal}=600 J

\Delta{S_{surr}}=-\Delta{HTotal}/368=-120.13

\Delta{S_{univ}}=-1.63 J/K


Yea, so if you can just provide me with some rational on why these steps are taken, I would appreciate it! I'm really just trying to understand.
 

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