Equality of expectation value integral over coordinate space and over energy

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the mathematical justification for the equality of expectation value integrals over coordinate space and energy in statistical mechanics. Participants explore both mathematical and physical perspectives on this equality, particularly in the context of observables and the density of states.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the mathematical justification for the equality of integrals involving observables and the density of states.
  • Another participant suggests that while there is a mathematical justification, a physical understanding based on Maxwell-Boltzmann statistics may be more intuitive.
  • A later reply emphasizes the importance of the probability of occupation being dictated by the Boltzmann factor, regardless of whether the integral is expressed in terms of energy or coordinates/momenta.
  • One participant expresses a desire for a pure mathematical justification, noting that the probability density in terms of energy involves the density of states and the Boltzmann factor.
  • Another participant mentions that in thermodynamics, proving the equivalence of such statements can be done by evaluating the integrals to show they yield the same probabilities, particularly for standard energy functions.
  • It is noted that while proving the equivalence for common energy functions may be straightforward, establishing it for arbitrary energy functions could be significantly more complex.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the physical reasoning behind the equality but express differing views on the mathematical justification. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the pure mathematical proof of the equality.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge that the mathematical proof may depend on specific forms of energy functions and that generalizing this proof could be challenging.

Derivator
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Dear all,

I'm wondering, how one could justify mathematically the equality
\int O(E(\vec{x}_1,...\vec{x}_N)) exp(-\beta E(\vec{x}_1,...,\vec{x}_N)) d\vec{x}_1...d\vec{x}_N = \int g(E) O(E) exp(-\beta E) dE

where O(E(x)) is an observable and g(E) the density of states.

Is there a mathematical justification for the equality?

best,
derivator
 
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This is a non-trivial question. There IS a mathematical justification (that you'd have to be really clever to figure out), but I think it's much easier to think about the PHYSICAL justification.

Regardless of whatever variable you choose to use in your integral, the probability of occupation of a state is dictated by Maxwell-Boltzmann statistics. Whether you express the Boltzmann factor as a function of E or a function of x and x's time derivative is irrelevant, since the Boltzmann factor only depends on the energy of that state (and the energy is typically a function of x and x's time derivatives). Here's a mathematical way of stating that:

<br /> P(E)=\frac{e^{\frac{-E}{kT}}}{\int _Ee^{\frac{-E}{kT}} dE}\Leftrightarrow P(x_1, x_2, ..., x_n, \dot{x}_1, \dot{x}_2, ..., \dot{x}_n)=\frac{e^{-\frac{E(x_1, x_2, ..., x_n, \dot{x}_1, \dot{x}_2, ..., \dot{x}_n)}{kT}}}{\int_{x_1}\int_{x_2}...\int_{x_n}\int_{\dot{x}_1}\int_{\dot{x}_2}...\int_{\dot{x}_n} e^{-\frac{E(x_1, x_2, ..., x_n, \dot{x}_1, \dot{x}_2, ..., \dot{x}_n)}{kT}}dx_1 dx_2 ... dx_n d\dot{x}_1d\dot{x}_2...d\dot{x}_n}<br />
where I have assumed the energy is only a function of the generalized coordinates and their time derivatives. (Or more precisely, the x dots should be generalized momenta.)

The reason for this is physically obvious: whether you label a state based on its energy or its coordinates/momenta, you still have the same Boltzmann factor to dictate the occupation of that state.
 
Last edited:
Thanks for your answer.

Well, I should have mentioned that the physical argumentation is clear to me. I'm really interested in the pure mathematical justification.

(By the way: the (unnormalized) probability density, when expressed as a function of the energy, is given by g(E) e^{\frac{-E}{kT}}, the density of states is somewhat like the Jacobian determinant that emerges when performing a variable-transformation on probability densities)
 
Well, in thermodynamics, a routine way of proving the equivalence of statements like the big equation I just posted is by simply evaluating the two integrals and showing they give the same probabilities. It's fairly easy to do this with the standard kinds of energy functions, which are quadratic in x's and xdot's. I'm fairly certain it holds for any power of x and xdots too. I think proving it for an arbitrary E(x's, xdot's) would be quite challenging, if not impossible.
 

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