Equation involving H and a re Accerlerating Universe

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the equations related to the accelerating universe, particularly focusing on the Friedmann-Lemaître-Robertson-Walker (FLRW) metric and the cosmological constant (Lambda). Participants explore the derivation of various equations, the interpretation of parameters, and the relationships between energy densities in cosmology.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question the interpretation of curvature parameter K in relation to the radius of curvature R, noting that it varies depending on whether K is -1, 0, or +1.
  • There is a discussion about how equation (1) is derived from equations (2), (3), and (4), with some suggesting that stress-energy conservation plays a role in this derivation.
  • Participants debate whether the sum of the four Omega parameters in equation (1) should equal the Omega in equation (4), with differing interpretations presented.
  • Some assert that Lambda is a constant density in the Einstein equations, while others note that dark energy can refer to a broader range of phenomena.
  • There are inquiries about the relationship between Omega[DE] and Lambda, with some participants suggesting that if Lambda is constant, then Omega[DE] should also be constant.
  • Questions arise regarding the exponent with w in the coefficient of Omega[DE], with explanations provided about the equation of state relating pressure to density.
  • Clarifications are made regarding the notation and definitions used in the equations, with some participants expressing confusion over the terms and their implications.
  • Further questions are raised about the implications of the radius of curvature and how it relates to the definitions of a and H[0].

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express both agreement and disagreement on various points, particularly regarding the interpretations of equations and parameters. There is no consensus on several aspects, including the derivation of equations and the implications of different values of K.

Contextual Notes

Some limitations in the discussion include assumptions about the definitions of curvature and energy density, as well as the dependence on specific interpretations of the equations. The discussion also highlights unresolved mathematical steps and varying interpretations of the relationships between different cosmological parameters.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for those interested in cosmology, particularly in understanding the dynamics of an accelerating universe and the mathematical frameworks used to describe it.

Buzz Bloom
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In the Wikipedia article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accelerating_universe#Evidence_for_acceleration the following equation
(1)
Equation2.png

[where the four currently hypothesized contributors to the energy density of the universe are curvature, matter, radiation and dark energy]

is given without any derivation from the previous equations
(2)
Equation.png

(3)
Equation3.png

(4)
Equation4.png
I have several question about these equations.

(a) I assume that in (2) K is -1, 0, +1 respectively for the space being hyperbolic, flat, or spherical. Then R would be the radius of curvature of the universe at time t. Is that correct?
(b) How is (1) derived form (2), (3), and (4)?
(c) Is the sum of the four Omegas in (1) supposed to equal the Omega in (4)?
(d) In the Einstein equations, isn't Lambda a constant density, independent of a?
(e) Isn't Omega[DE] = Lambda/rho[sub-c] and Lambda a constant independent of a?
(f) If e is correct, then
Omega[DE] = Lambda * (8*pi*G/3) * (a/adot)^2
OK, if that's right, where does the exponent with w in the coefficient of Omega[DE] come from?
 
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I found this document very useful as a thorough introduction to flrw/lcdm equations:
http://casa.colorado.edu/~ajsh/phys5770_08/frw.pdf
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Buzz Bloom said:
I assume that in (2) K is -1, 0, +1 respectively for the space being hyperbolic, flat, or spherical.

Yes.

Buzz Bloom said:
Then R would be the radius of curvature of the universe at time t

If K = 1, yes. If K = 0 or -1, R doesn't have that simple interpretation; it's just a "scale factor" than can be used to track the universe's expansion.

Buzz Bloom said:
Is the sum of the four Omegas in (1) supposed to equal the Omega in (4)?

No. (4) is just a definition; each individual ##\Omega## in (1) is obtained from the corresponding energy density by dividing by the critical density.

Buzz Bloom said:
In the Einstein equations, isn't Lambda a constant density, independent of a?

If it's a cosmological constant, yes. But the term "dark energy" is also used more generally to denote anything that can cause accelerating expansion; for example, a scalar field.

Buzz Bloom said:
where does the exponent with w in the coefficient of Omega[DE] come from?

##w## is the parameter in the equation of state that relates pressure to density; in general, ##p = w \rho##. For non-relativistic matter, ##w = 0##; for radiation or highly relativistic matter, ##w = 1/3##; for a cosmological constant, ##w = -1##; and for other more general types of "dark energy" such as a scalar field, ##w## can vary.

If you look at the second Friedmann equation, and note the factor ##\rho + 3p## on the RHS (where we include a cosmological constant and dark energy in ##\rho## and ##p##), you can see that, if we know ##w##, the factor becomes ##\rho \left( 1 + 3 w \right)##, so any ##w < - 1/3## will make the factor negative and therefore the acceleration ##\ddot{a} / a## will be positive. Combining the second Friedmann equation with the first leads to the factor ##- 3 \left( 1 + w \right)## in (1); note that for a cosmological constant, ##1 + w = 0## and the dark energy density term is constant, as desired. But any ##w < - 1/3## can in principle appear in that term, so it is not necessarily constant in general.
 
Last edited:
Buzz Bloom said:
(a) I assume that in (2) K is -1, 0, +1 respectively for the space being hyperbolic, flat, or spherical. Then R would be the radius of curvature of the universe at time t. Is that correct?
Not quite. The way the equations above are written, R is a constant (the current radius of curvature), and the radius of curvature at any given time would be Ra.

(PeterDonis' answer above is for the more common notation where R(t) replaces a(t).)

Buzz Bloom said:
(b) How is (1) derived form (2), (3), and (4)?
By using stress-energy conservation. Stress-energy conservation determines how the energy density of each component scales with the expansion.

Buzz Bloom said:
(c) Is the sum of the four Omegas in (1) supposed to equal the Omega in (4)?
The sum of the four ##\Omega## parameters is equal to one, by definition. You can see this by considering the situation where ##a = 1## (now), as by definition ##H(a=1) = H_0##.

Buzz Bloom said:
(d) In the Einstein equations, isn't Lambda a constant density, independent of a?
Yes.

Buzz Bloom said:
(e) Isn't Omega[DE] = Lambda/rho[sub-c] and Lambda a constant independent of a?
As PeterDonis mentioned, Lambda is the special case for dark energy where ##w = -1##. You should be able to show that if ##w = -1##, the dark energy in equation (1) is a constant.

Buzz Bloom said:
(f) If e is correct, then
Omega[DE] = Lambda * (8*pi*G/3) * (a/adot)^2
OK, if that's right, where does the exponent with w in the coefficient of Omega[DE] come from?
The way that equation (1) is written, ##\Omega_{DE}## is the current density fraction of dark energy. That is to say, equation (4) should be written as ##\Omega_x = \rho_x(now) / \rho_c(now)##, where ##x## is whatever component of the energy density we're referring to.
 
Last edited:
wabbit said:
I found this document very useful as a thorough introduction to flrw/lcdm equations:
http://casa.colorado.edu/~ajsh/phys5770_08/frw.pdf

Thanks wabbit. The document looks like I will find a lot of useful stuff in it. I will probably have more questions after I study it.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Buzz Bloom said:
(a) I assume that in (2) K is -1, 0, +1 respectively for the space being hyperbolic, flat, or spherical. Then R would be the radius of curvature of the universe at time t. Is that correct?

PeterDonis said:
.
If K = 1, yes. If K = 0 or -1, R doesn't have that simple interpretation; it's just a "scale factor" than can be used to track the universe's expansion.

Chalnoth said:
Not quite. The way the equations above are written, R is a constant (the current radius of curvature), and the radius of curvature at any given time would be Ra.

Thanks PeterDonis and Chalnoth.

It seems like the notation is a bit confusing. The clarification in Chalnoth's post helps to clarify it.
 
PeterDonis said:
No. (4) is just a definition; each individual Ω\Omega in (1) is obtained from the corresponding energy density by dividing by the critical density.

I think what confused me was seeing in several places that the sum of the contributing Omegas added to 1.

Ah, I see now that Chalnoth explained that the sum always equals 1 by definition.
 
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Thanks once again to PeterDonis. Your answers to my questions (e) and (f) were very clear and helpful.answers to my questions (e) and (f) were very clear and helpful.
 
I have been thinking some more about the 1st equation of my original question.

equation2-png.81011.png


(a) What would be the value of Omega[k] be if |radius of curvature| = R[0], and k = +1 or -1?

(b) Also, since a is a relative distance with a[0] arbitraily set = 1, as I now undestand it, the equation would need to be modified, replaceing a with R/R[0]. Would an alternative to this be to modify H[0] by replacing its standard distance 1 Mpc with R[0], that is, dividing H[0] by R[0] and/or by reinterperting the unit of time from 1 sec to R[0]/c?
 

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