Equations of Motion for an Object Falling in a Parabolic Bowl

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    Falling Falling object
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the equations of motion for an object falling within a parabolic bowl described by the equation y=x². Participants explore the dynamics of the object's motion under the influence of gravity and without friction, seeking to derive the equations governing its trajectory over time.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant poses a question about the equations of motion for an object in a parabolic bowl, indicating that they expect oscillatory motion.
  • Another suggests using conservation of energy to express velocity as a function of height.
  • Several participants discuss deriving speed as a function of time and the challenges of integrating their equations.
  • There are mentions of elliptic integrals arising from the equations, with some participants expressing confusion over their formulations.
  • Disagreements arise regarding the interpretation of velocity components and the application of conservation of energy.
  • One participant proposes a method to derive the motion equations using forces instead of energy conservation.
  • Another participant provides a detailed derivation involving energy conservation, leading to complex integrals and numerical methods for solving them.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a variety of approaches and interpretations, with no consensus on the correct formulation of the equations of motion. Disagreements persist regarding the application of conservation laws and the interpretation of velocity components.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note that their equations lead to complex integrals, and there are unresolved issues regarding the assumptions made in their formulations. The discussion includes various mathematical expressions and interpretations that may depend on specific conditions or definitions.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying dynamics, particularly in the context of motion in non-linear paths, as well as individuals exploring the mathematical modeling of physical systems.

  • #31
Binaryburst said:
It is right. That's what I got too... That's just v*cos(theta). It results that v is equal to f(x).

Now try writing x(t). :)
 
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  • #32
In the consevation of Energy formula you got the speed with respect to the height only which is x^2 so we actually got vx :~> when you replace y with x^2 and vy when you leave y unchanged. PS: I'm not an expert either. :D
 
  • #33
Binaryburst said:
In the consevation of Energy formula you got the speed with respect to the height only which is x^2 so we actually got vy :~>

Nope. I don't think so.
 
  • #34
I did a simulation with vx and it matched the sinusoidal, it seems. Any help from the experts?
 
Last edited:
  • #35
Where do you consider the motion along the bowl? It will lead to accelerations both in vx and vy, to follow the shape.I'll try to start from scratch - with energy conservation, but it is possible to avoid this word if necessary.

If the object is at rest at position ##x_0>0##, it has a total energy of ##gx_0^2##, setting its mass and a meter to 1.
At position x, ##0<x<x_0##, energy conservation leads to ##v^2=2g(x_0^2-x^2)##.
The derivative of the parabola there is 2x, therefore ##v_x=\frac{1}{2x}v_y##. It follows that ##v^2 = v_x^2 + v_y^2 = v_x^2 (1+4x^2)##. Combining both,
$$\frac{dx}{dt}= v_x = \sqrt{\frac{v^2}{1+4x^2}} = \sqrt{\frac{2g(x_0^2-x^2)}{1+4x^2}}$$
The sign is arbitrary and depends on the current part of the oscillation.
This leads to ugly elliptic integrals. It can be written as
$$\frac{dt}{dx}=\sqrt{\frac{1+4x^2}{2g(x_0^2-x^2)}}$$
While this gives elliptic integrals as well, it allows to determine t(x) via numerical integration.

g=10 and x0=1 leads to a period of T=2.36s.
For large x0 (>>1), most of the parabola is like a free fall, and the period should approach 4 times this free-fall time. As an example, x=sqrt(500) leads to T=40.06, whereas a free fall would give T=40s.
For small x0 (<<1), the deflection of the bowl is negligible, and we get a harmonic oscillator. The numerator for dt/dx can be approximated as 1, and the period approaches ##T \approx \frac{2\pi}{\sqrt{2g}}##.
 
  • #36
Thank you! At last :D
 

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