Equivalence relation-equivalence classes

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties of the relation $I_E$ defined on the set $E = \{d, e, f\}$. Participants explore whether $I_E$ is a set, its classification as an equivalence relation, and the determination of equivalence classes associated with this relation. The scope includes theoretical aspects of set theory and equivalence relations.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant defines the relation $I_E$ and attempts to prove it is a set using a property $\phi(x)$.
  • Another participant questions the clarity of the definition of $\phi(x)$ and suggests a more precise formulation.
  • Concerns are raised about the definition of reflexivity in the context of equivalence relations.
  • Participants discuss whether it is necessary to prove that $E \times E$ is a set, with references to previous discussions on Cartesian products.
  • There is a proposal to identify the equivalence classes of elements $d$, $e$, and $f$, with some participants asserting that each element is only equivalent to itself.
  • Clarifications are made regarding the notation and the nature of equivalence classes, emphasizing that they should be represented as sets.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the reflexive nature of the relation $I_E$ and the identification of equivalence classes, but there are disagreements about the definitions and implications of reflexivity and the necessity of proving certain properties. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the clarity of definitions and the implications of the relation.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the definitions used, particularly regarding the property $\phi(x)$ and the implications of reflexivity. There is also a lack of consensus on whether the Cartesian product $E \times E$ needs to be explicitly proven as a set.

evinda
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Hello! (Smile)

We are given the set $E=\{d,e,f \}$, $d,e,f$ different from each other and the relation $I_{E}=\{ <x,x>: x \in E\}$. Prove that $I_{E}$ is a set. In addition, show that the relation $I_{E}$ is an equivalence relation in $E$ and find all the equivalence classes.

That's what I have tried:

We define $\phi(x)=<x,x>: x \in E$.

Then, we have that $\forall <x,x>(\phi(x)) \rightarrow <x,x> \in E \times E$.

$E \times E$ is a set.
So, from the theorem: "Let $\phi$ a type. If there is a set $Y$, such that $\forall x(\phi(x)) \rightarrow x \in Y$, then there is the set $\{ x: \phi(x) \}$", we have that $I_{E}=\{ <x,x>: x \in E\}$ is a set.

The relation $I_{E}$ is an equivalence relation:

  • reflective: $<x,x> \in I_{E} \rightarrow <x,x> \in I_{E}$
  • symmetric: $<x,y> \in I_{E} \rightarrow x=y \rightarrow <y,x> \in I_{E}$
  • transitive: $<x,y> \in I_{E} \wedge <y,z> \in I_{E} \rightarrow x=y \wedge y=z \rightarrow <x,z> \in I_{E}$
Is it right so far? How could we find all the equivalence classes? (Thinking)
 
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evinda said:
We define $\phi(x)=<x,x>: x \in E$.
It is not clear what this means. $\phi(x)$ must be a property, i.e., something that is either true or false for every $x$. How is what you wrote true or false for a given $x$?

Recall that the notation $\{\langle x,x\rangle:x\in E\}$ is a contraction for $\{y:\exists x\in E\;y=\langle x,x\rangle\}$. Then it make sense to define $\phi(y)$ to be $\exists x\in E\;y=\langle x,x\rangle$. Then $\phi(y)$ is indeed true or false for every $y$. Next, we indeed have that $\forall y\;(\phi(y)\to y\in E\times E)$, and since $E\times E$ is a set, $\{y:\phi(y)\}$ is also a set.

evinda said:
  • reflective: $<x,x> \in I_{E} \rightarrow <x,x> \in I_{E}$
  • symmetric: $<x,y> \in I_{E} \rightarrow x=y \rightarrow <y,x> \in I_{E}$
  • transitive: $<x,y> \in I_{E} \wedge <y,z> \in I_{E} \rightarrow x=y \wedge y=z \rightarrow <x,z> \in I_{E}$
Symmetry and transitivity make sense, but the definition of reflexivity does not involve an implication.

evinda said:
How could we find all the equivalence classes?
The equivalence class of $d$ consists of all elements that are equivalent to $d$ with respect to this relation. What are those elements?
 
Evgeny.Makarov said:
Recall that the notation $\{\langle x,x\rangle:x\in E\}$ is a contraction for $\{y:\exists x\in E\;y=\langle x,x\rangle\}$. Then it make sense to define $\phi(y)$ to be $\exists x\in E\;y=\langle x,x\rangle$. Then $\phi(y)$ is indeed true or false for every $y$. Next, we indeed have that $\forall y\;(\phi(y)\to y\in E\times E)$, and since $E\times E$ is a set, $\{y:\phi(y)\}$ is also a set.

I understand.. (Nod) Do we have to prove that $E \times E$ is a set? If so, how could we do this? (Thinking)

Evgeny.Makarov said:
Symmetry and transitivity make sense, but the definition of reflexivity does not involve an implication.

So, can we just say that it is obvious that the relation is reflective? (Thinking)

Evgeny.Makarov said:
The equivalence class of $d$ consists of all elements that are equivalent to $d$ with respect to this relation. What are those elements?

Do these elements belong maybe to this set: $\{ \langle x,y \rangle : x,y \in E \}=\{ \langle x,y \rangle: x=y \wedge x \in E\}=\{ \langle x,x \rangle: x \in E\}=\bigcup \{ \langle x,x \rangle: x \in E\} $

Or am I wrong? (Worried)
 
evinda said:
Do we have to prove that $E \times E$ is a set? If so, how could we do this?
You proved in another thread that the Cartesian product of two sets is a set.

evinda said:
So, can we just say that it is obvious that the relation is reflective?
You write that something is obvious if, first, you personally are able to explain this fact at any level of detail, up to axioms, and, second, you think that it is clear to the reader as well. It's hard for me to say if you can explain this fact at any level of detail.

evinda said:
Do these elements belong maybe to this set: $\{ \langle x,y \rangle : x,y \in E \}=\{ \langle x,y \rangle: x=y \wedge x \in E\}=\{ \langle x,x \rangle: x \in E\}=\bigcup \{ \langle x,x \rangle: x \in E\} $
You have three elements: $d$, $e$ and $f$. What is equivalent to $d$, i.e., what is related to $d$ by the relation $I_E$? Well, $e$ is not because $\langle d,e\rangle\notin I_E$. Is $f$ equivalent to $d$? Is $d$? Those elements for which the answer is yes form the equivalence class of $d$, often denoted by $[d]$. Do the same thing with $e$ and $f$.
 
Evgeny.Makarov said:
You proved in another thread that the Cartesian product of two sets is a set.

So, since we know that the Cartesian product of two sets is a set, can we just say that $E \times E$ is a set, as it is a Cartesian product? (Thinking)

Evgeny.Makarov said:
You write that something is obvious if, first, you personally are able to explain this fact at any level of detail, up to axioms, and, second, you think that it is clear to the reader as well. It's hard for me to say if you can explain this fact at any level of detail.
Isn't a relation $R$ reflective, if $xRx$ ? In our case, it is always $xI_{E}x$, or am I wrong? :confused:

Evgeny.Makarov said:
You have three elements: $d$, $e$ and $f$. What is equivalent to $d$, i.e., what is related to $d$ by the relation $I_E$? Well, $e$ is not because $\langle d,e\rangle\notin I_E$. Is $f$ equivalent to $d$? Is $d$? Those elements for which the answer is yes form the equivalence class of $d$, often denoted by $[d]$. Do the same thing with $e$ and $f$.

The only element that is equivalent to $d$ is $d$, right?
So, is it like that?
$$[d]=d, \ [e]=e \ , [f]=f$$

Or am I wrong? (Thinking)
 
evinda said:
Isn't a relation $R$ reflective, if $xRx$ ? In our case, it is always $xI_{E}x$, or am I wrong?
Yes.

evinda said:
The only element that is equivalent to $d$ is $d$, right?
So, is it like that?
$$[d]=d, \ [e]=e \ , [f]=f$$
Correct, but the equivalence class is a set because in general it consists of several elements, so the right-hand sides should be surrounded by curly braces.
 

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