Equivalent conditions for a measurability restriction?

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter economicsnerd
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Conditions Equivalent
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of measurability in the context of partitions of a countable set T and a finite set A, specifically exploring whether a closed set X in the compact metrizable space Z can be characterized by a partition that makes it measurable. Participants are examining potential alternative formulations and topological characterizations related to this question.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant defines Z as A^T under the product topology and poses a question about the existence of a partition of T such that a closed set X is measurable with respect to that partition.
  • Several participants seek clarification on what is meant by "measurable with respect to a partition," indicating a need for a more precise definition.
  • A participant explains that they are referring to measurable functions from (T, Σ) to (A, 2^A), where Σ is the σ-algebra generated by the partition.
  • Another participant discusses the closed set formed by a single function and describes the σ-algebra generated by that function, noting that constant functions on the partition are also measurable, leading to a negative conclusion regarding the measurability of singleton sets.
  • One participant asserts that since it is not true for singleton sets, it cannot be true for arbitrary closed sets, suggesting a proposition that relates a closed set X to a specific axiom or topological statement.
  • A later reply introduces a vague notion of an equivalent condition involving retractions, indicating an area of exploration that may relate to the original question.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of measurability concerning partitions, with some agreeing on the limitations of singleton sets while others explore broader conditions without reaching consensus on a definitive characterization.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the complexity of defining measurability in this context and the potential need for additional assumptions or clarifications regarding the properties of closed sets and partitions.

economicsnerd
Messages
268
Reaction score
24
Let Z:= A^T, where T is a countable set and A is a finite set. Under the product topology, Z is a compact metrizable space. (As a special case, notice that Z could be the Cantor set).

Given a closed set X \subseteq Z, I'm interested in answering the question, "Does there exist some partition \mathcal P of T such that X = \{f \in Z: \enspace f \text{ is } \mathcal P\text{-measurable}\}?"

Is anybody here aware of any alternative formulations of the above question? For example, is there a topological characterization?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
What do you mean with measurable with respect to a partition?
 
micromass said:
What do you mean with measurable with respect to a partition?

Sorry, I could have been clearer...

I meant measurable functions (T, \Sigma)\to (A, 2^A), where \Sigma is the \sigma-algebra generated by \mathcal P.
 
Given a single function ##f##, this is a closed set ##\{f\}##. Clearly the coarsest ##\sigma##-algebra that makes ##f## measurable is

\sigma(f) := \{f^{-1}(E)~\vert~E\subseteq A\}

This is clearly generated by the partition ##\{f^{-1}(a)~\vert~a\in A\}##.
But any function constant on the partition is also measurable. In particular, the globally constant functions are measurable. So there is no ##\sigma##-algebra which only makes ##f## measurable. So the answer is negative because it fails for ##\{f\}##.
 
Right. So (given nontrivial A) it's not true for singleton X, and therefore not true for arbitrary closed X.

What I'm after is a proposition of the form:

``Given a closed set X \subseteq Z:

\Phi(X) \iff \exists\mathcal P\text{ such that } X = \{f \in Z: \enspace f \text{ is } \mathcal P\text{-measurable}\} \text{''}
where \Phi(X) is some other axiom about X, possibly some topological statement.

Said differently, I'm wondering what statements are true of members of \bigg\{ \{f \in Z: \enspace f \text{ is } \mathcal P\text{-measurable}\}: \enspace \mathcal P \text{ partition of } T\bigg\} and fail for every other closed subset of Z.

Again, apologies for any lack of clarity (and for being long-winded).
 
I have some vague notion that there's an equivalent condition involving retractions.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
3K
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 0 ·
Replies
0
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
5K
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K