Estimating Gas Flow Rate Through a Line Puncture or Blowdown Orifice

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around estimating the gas flow rate through a line puncture or blowdown orifice, specifically using the equation Q = D^2*P from the Pipeline Rules of Thumb Handbook. Participants explore the validity of this equation under various conditions, including the assumptions made regarding temperature and pressure, and compare it to other methods such as Bernoulli's and choked flow equations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the unit consistency of the equation Q = D^2*P, noting that it yields Mcf/hr but appears to derive from force units.
  • Another participant confirms that while the units do not align perfectly, the equation provides reasonably accurate estimates under certain conditions, specifically assuming ambient temperature.
  • A participant mentions using Bernoulli's equation but realizes it is not applicable for compressible substances like natural gas, suggesting the use of Euler's equations instead.
  • Choked flow equations are proposed as a more widely accepted method for calculating flow rates, particularly in accordance with ASME code calculations.
  • One participant presents a specific case with given parameters and expresses difficulty reconciling their results with the approximation provided by the handbook.
  • Another participant suggests using a discharge coefficient (C) between 0.6 to 0.8 and emphasizes the importance of accurate density values for real gases.
  • It is noted that if the downstream pressure exceeds a certain threshold, the flow will not be choked, necessitating a different approach for calculations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the applicability and accuracy of the Q = D^2*P equation, with some finding it reasonably accurate while others question its assumptions and results. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best method to use for specific conditions.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations such as the dependence on ambient temperature, the need for accurate density values, and the implications of using a discharge coefficient. There is also a recognition that the flow may not be choked under certain conditions, which affects the choice of equations.

Who May Find This Useful

Individuals interested in gas flow calculations, particularly in engineering contexts related to pipeline design and safety, may find this discussion relevant.

EngineerBR
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The Pipeline Rules of Thumb Handbook uses the equation Q = D^2*P to estimate the flow rate of escaping gas from a pressured line (see link below for excerpt) under standard conditions. Where Q is flow rate in Mcf/hr, D is diameter of the nipple or orifice in inches, and P is the absolute pressure in psi at a near point upstream from the opening.

Looking at the equation with respect to units, I see that the right side has an area multiplied by a pressure, which results in a force.

in^2 * lbs/in^2 = lbs ... = Mcf/hr ?

But according to the book, we end up with Mcf/hr...not lbs.

Obviously PiplineROT did some sort of approximation and cancellation here that they did not explain, but what is it? How does this make sense?

http://books.google.com/books?id=2D...as blown off through a line puncture&f=false"
 
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Hi engineer, welcome to the board. You're right, the units don't come out. But I checked their example and tried it with a few different pressures and diameters and found the equation they give is reasonably accurate.

One caveat, the equation assumes ambient temperature.
 
Thanks for your help. I figured it had to be right, I was just curious/confused about their logic.

What equation did you use to check it? I was using Bernoulli's and getting flows significantly lower, but then I realized that I was analyzing a compressible substance (Natural Gas) and Bernoulli doesn't apply. So did you use Euler's then? Or do you have a flow calculator?

Thanks again.
 
Thanks. Although I'm still having some trouble creating the same asnwers as this approximation. Maybe you can point out where I'm going wrong?

For my case, the back pressure is 414.7 psia, 4" orifice diameter, with natural gas (SG = .6, density = .0014 slugs/cf, k = 1.27).

A = 3.14*(2 in)2 = 12.56 in2 = .0872 sqft
P = 414.7 psi = 59717 lbs/sqft

Using the approximation,

Q = D2*P = 42*414.7 = 6635 Mcf/hr

Using the equation from your link, and C = 1

mdot = .0872*sqrt(1.27*0.0014*59717*(2/2.27)2.27/.27) [sqft*sqrt(slugs2/(s2*ft2)]
mdot = .5278 [slugs/s]

Q = mdot/density = .5278/.0014 [slugs*cf/(s*slugs)] = 377 cf/s = 1357 Mcf/hr

Using metric units and then converting at the end I still get 1355 Mcf/hr. Where is the mistake? Or is my pressure too low for the approximation? Idealizing C = 1 may not necessarily be correct, but any other value would just make my answer be even smaller; so the problem must be somewhere else...
 
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C is discharge coefficient. Suggest using 0.6 to 0.8 as a ballpark.
Check your density. Seems way low. (rho is real gas density at P and T)
SG isn't needed.

The value from D2P is going to be a bit high. I get a lower value depending on what C is used, but for a ballpark guestimate using a very simple equation such as D2P, I would expect +/- 20% or so.

Note also this is for choked flow. If downstream pressure is greater than ~ 220 psig, it won't be choked and a different equation must be used.
 
I've double checked the density, by both using SG and looking up it's listed rho, and it is correct.

However, you're right that the flow won't be choked in my case. So I'll have to go to Euler's equations from here for a reality check. Thanks for your help.
 

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