Lingusitics EU Progress: Official Language Change to "Euro-English

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The European Commission has announced that English will become the official language of the European Union, replacing German. This transition will include a five-year phase-in plan for a simplified version dubbed "Euro-English." The discussion highlights the historical resistance among Europeans to adopt a single language due to cultural pride and the complexities of language politics. While some advocate for Esperanto as a neutral alternative, others argue that English's dominance in business and technology makes it a practical choice. Concerns about the implications of enforcing a single language, such as perceived cultural superiority and historical grievances, are also raised. The conversation reflects broader themes of globalization, language evolution, and the potential for future linguistic shifts, including the possibility of Mandarin becoming more prominent. Ultimately, the debate underscores the challenges of achieving linguistic unity in a diverse continent with deep-rooted historical identities.
  • #91
Jang Jin Hong said:
No. I do not want to say "should use wrong grammar"
but I predict that wrong grammar will be accepted in the future regardless of
native speakers' willing.
Langauge which is used in real communication reflect the real grammatical standard.
More and more, English is used by non-native speakers, and English which is used
by non-native will reflect real standard of English for international communication.

Look at me. my English contains grammatical errors. and my expression is very easy one.
but you can understand my thought.
I'm going to disagree with Chi here. While I don't expect non-native English speakers to speak fluent English, I have to admit I do find "getting the meaning" of what you are trying to say a bit difficult at times. I think it's quite possible that two different readers might be getting two slightly different takes on what you are trying to express. I just don't understand how a lack of uniformity and writing riddled with mistakes will make it easier for people unfamiliar with a foreign language to communicate in that language. I know that when I went to Europe, there was a lot of slang used that I wasn't familiar with, so it had to be translated for me. A member here, Wolram, often uses colloquialisms that I cannot understand. I believe that the more you deviate from the norm, the more difficult it will be for people to fully understand what you are saying.
 
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  • #92
CaptainQuasar said:
Then there's the apparently contrary case where hundreds of millions of dollars' worth of equipment blow up because of a single standard / metric conversion problem or a misplaced decimal point. :-p
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None's bodys ain't prefect!
 
  • #93
Evo said:
I'm going to disagree with Chi here. While I don't expect non-native English speakers to speak fluent English, I have to admit I do find "getting the meaning" of what you are trying to say a bit difficult at times. I think it's quite possible that two different readers might be getting two slightly different takes on what you are trying to express. I just don't understand how a lack of uniformity and writing riddled with mistakes will make it easier for people unfamiliar with a foreign language to communicate in that language. I know that when I went to Europe, there was a lot of slang used that I wasn't familiar with, so it had to be translated for me. A member here, Wolram, often uses colloquialisms from parts of England that I cannot understand. I believe that the more you deviate from the norm, the more difficult it will be for people to fully understand what you are saying.

True, but this mode of communication is the antithesis of colloquialisms. It is English stripped bare of the interesting bits. Very dull and boring, and not as efficient as two fluent speakers conversing in proper English. If two speakers have learned to be fluent, then they would naturally want to speak in the best form. But again, the key word is "pragmatism."

"Messed-up" English (or "bare-bones" English) is more quickly learned. Proper English, with its idioms, colloquialisms, exceptions, outright oddities and absurdities is very difficult for non-native speakers to master. But the point is not to communicate in English, the point is to communicate at all. It is vulgar (in the erstwhile sense), but it works.

In reviewing Jang's posts, I must insist that I find no ambiguity in what he is saying. I also admit to finding it irritating to my sensibilities.
 
  • #94
This is all reminding me of an anecdote: a friend of mine who was an exchange student in Brazil was horrified to find that much of the time she'd spent learning proper Portuguese in the classroom in preparation was gone to waste. She said that, at least in the region where she was in (which I believe was fairly remote) many people didn't bother to, for example, conjugate verbs properly. Her interpretation was that the Native American populations for whom Portuguese became the lingua franca just never really cared that much about proper Portuguese and so neither do their descendants.
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  • #95
The UK had a problem hiring foreign doctors who spoke perfect English - but were sent to work in Yorkshire. so it had to write a phrasebook:
It explains such Yorkshirisms as “manky” – meaning: not very well. And “lugoil” the ear. Or “fisog” the face.

Yorkshire has different words for every familiar part of the human body. Sometimes several dozen. There is no logic to it. For instance a Yorkshireman might tell the doctor – “I’ve gone off me legs”, meaning I’m not very well….or I’m manky.

I hope you’re paying attention!

Speaking Yorkshire is hard enough for Yorkshiremen, let alone educated Austrian medics who’ve been taught good English. Not that it will help them. But the phrase book might.

A Yorkshireman, for example, never dies -- he simply “pops his clogs”. If he’s tired he’s actually “jiggered”. And if by some mischance there’s nothing wrong with him, then he’s “champion”.
 
  • #96
Chi Meson said:
There is a tendency for native speakers to be defensive about their language, and "abuse" of it appears as an insult. Some of that tendency has been (jokingly) exemplified in this thread.

well, i did make one joke, but that's only because his response to my post was a complete non sequitur.
 
  • #97
I see the hills, I see a river,
I see the houses way down low
I see no borders, I see no frontiers
I feel a spirit that will grow

I see the people, hear them laughing
Speaking words I don´t understand
But when I see their smiling faces
I know that I can take their hands.

Cause I believe, that we can reach you
And that we have a common goal
To share the good things, and help through hard times
And build that European Soul

http://akadnews.twoday.net/files/European-Hymn-Peter-Jedlicka/
 
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  • #98
You do realize the article is a joke right?
It's a poor rip off of Mark Twain's essay ridiculing Noah Webster and others attempts to simplify and standardise American spelling.
 
  • #99
Why? English is such a dirty language. So is German.

Why not like French, Spanish or Italian? Something nice.
 
  • #100
As Charles V said, "I speak Spanish to God, Italian to women, French to men, and German to my horse"

One big advanrtage of English or German for an engineer is that it's much more effective for swearing.
When you pinch your hand with a spanner the romance languages really don't cut it.
 
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  • #101
mgb_phys said:
You do realize the article is a joke right?
It's a poor rip off of Mark Twain's essay ridiculing Noah Webster and others attempts to simplify and standardise American spelling.

Please read the link I have found (somewhere earlier in the thread) - while it is attributed to Twain it is not his work.
 
  • #102
mgb_phys said:
One big advanrtage of English or German for an engineer is that it's much more effective for swearing.

I have heard Germans switching to Polish to swear :smile:
 
  • #103
Borek said:
Please read the link I have found (somewhere earlier in the thread) - while it is attributed to Twain it is not his work.

Yeah, I found a bunch of places both on the net and a couple in Google Books that attribute one of the original versions to someone named "MJ Shields" who supposedly wrote it as a letter to Economist magazine. But I couldn't find a citation of what issue of the Economist it would have come from nor any mention of it on the Economist website itself so I am suspicious of whether even that is true. There seems to be consensus that it had nothing to do with Twain.
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  • #104
JasonRox said:
Why? English is such a dirty language. So is German.

Why not like French, Spanish or Italian? Something nice.

French is horrible. Italian is boring. Spanish is cool.
 
  • #105
leopard said:
French is horrible. Italian is boring. Spanish is cool.

No way, french I like.
 
  • #106
CaptainQuasar said:
Yeah, I found a bunch of places both on the net and a couple in Google Books that attribute one of the original versions to someone named "MJ Shields" who supposedly wrote it as a letter to Economist magazine. But I couldn't find a citation of what issue of the Economist it would have come from nor any mention of it on the Economist website itself so I am suspicious of whether even that is true. There seems to be consensus that it had nothing to do with Twain.

I will post the link again:

http://www.spellingsociety.org/journals/j31/satires.php

A little bit more details. Not that you have to trust these :smile:
 
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  • #107
Borek said:
I have heard Germans switching to Polish to swear :smile:
That's only their best international footballers :biggrin:
 
  • #108
If you want any force in your swearing then try finnish :)

I think the whole world needs to have the same language
 
  • #109
A former boss (construction superintendent whom I later replaced) would slip into Latvian when he was particularly agitated. I didn't understand what he was saying, but his son appeared to be sufficiently impressed.

This was one tough dude. His mother and aunt came and took him out of school (a small town outside Riga) one day. The Russians had moved in, stolen all the food from the family farm, including all livestock and draft animals. The men resisted, and all his older male relatives were slaughtered. The two women struck off cross-country with this young boy, seeking refuge. Kredo told me stories of trying to glean food from picked over crop-land, to maybe find a potato or part of a turnip, etc. He also told me of days when his mother or aunt gave him part of a potato or carrot to eat, telling him "I'm not hungry". They were angels, and he showed them extreme deference in their later years.

When the Nazis came through Latvia, Latvian men volunteered for service (often in poorly-equipped suicide squads) not because they liked the Germans, but because they wanted revenge on the Russians.