Even light would take an infinite time

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the implications of light signals crossing the event horizon in the context of general relativity, specifically addressing the claim that light would take an infinite time to cross the boundary at r = 2m. Participants explore the relationship between the constancy of the speed of light and the behavior of light in a Schwarzschild metric, raising questions about local versus global measurements of time and distance.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant cites PAM Dirac's assertion that light takes an infinite time to cross r = 2m and seeks clarification on how this aligns with the constancy of the speed of light.
  • Another participant states that the constancy of the speed of light is valid only in local frames.
  • A participant expresses confusion regarding the meaning of "locally" in the context of the speed of light and questions why the fixed observer's coordinate system does not apply to the external sphere at r = 2m.
  • It is noted that the Schwarzschild coordinates do not represent local time or distance directly, and that proper measurements require conversion using the metric.
  • A participant acknowledges the need to integrate using the metric to understand the infinite time interval as light approaches the event horizon.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the interpretation of local versus global measurements in relation to the speed of light and the Schwarzschild coordinates. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of these interpretations on the behavior of light at the event horizon.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the need for careful consideration of the metric when discussing time and distance in curved spacetime, indicating that assumptions about local measurements may not hold in the context of the Schwarzschild solution.

goedelite
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Thus wrote PAM Dirac in his little monograph, "General Theory of Relativity", p.34t. More fully, "Even a light signal would take an infinite time to cross the boundary r = 2m, as we can easily check."

Yes, we can, and I did easily by setting ds = 0 in the Schwarzschild solution for a particle described by radially symmetric coordinates with a static metric. The time for transit is governed by a log function of the radius, r, for an observer in the fixed coordinate system and is infinite for him (or her!)

Please someone, kindly explain how this result is consistent with the constancy of the speed of light. The distance to the point at which r = 2m is a determined quantity. If the speed of light does not change, how can the time to traverse it be other than finite for the fixed observer?
 
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The constancy of the speed of light is true locally.
 
Vanadium 50: Thanks you your reply, but I find it too concise for my understanding. I was under the impression that one of the two principles of relativity in the constancy of the speed of light. I have not, until now, read that the speed of light is constant locally. I do not know what locally means in this regard. In the context of my question, the fixed observer is using a coordinate system that describes events in the three space r > 2m. In this locality, the time of transit grows without limit as the light approaches r = 2m + . I am making no reference to what happens inside this region, because the coordinates are not used therein - though the solution is analytically continued. Why is this external sphere not in his locality?
 
goedelite said:
If the speed of light does not change, how can the time to traverse it be other than finite for the fixed observer?
Because the Schwarzschild t coordinate does not measure local time, and the Schwarzschild r coordinate does not measure local distance. Both need to be converted (using the metric) before you can measure the local speed of light, which is always c.

To calculate local radial distance (for a local hovering observer), put [itex]dt=d\phi=d\theta=0[/itex] in the metric.

To calculate local time (for a local hovering observer), put [itex]dr=d\phi=d\theta=0[/itex] in the metric.
 
Last edited:
Dr Greg, I think I see what you mean: we can say dx = c dt, but to integrate to finite distances we must use the metric, and that is where the time interval grows without bound. Thanks much!
 

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