Evidence that the ship had its engine turned on

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around understanding the implications of a ship's engine being turned on, particularly in the context of momentum and center of mass (CM) velocity. Participants explore the relationship between engine operation, acceleration, and the resulting changes in velocity.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the relationship between engine operation and acceleration, questioning how the velocity of the center of mass changes over time. There are attempts to analyze graphs and equations related to CM velocity, with some participants expressing confusion over the correct interpretation of results.

Discussion Status

Guidance has been offered regarding the use of equations to determine CM velocity, and there is an ongoing exploration of how net forces affect momentum conservation. Multiple interpretations of the problem are being examined, particularly concerning the validity of different answers based on the assumptions made.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the absence of air in deep space and discuss the implications of this on the problem. There is also a focus on the conditions under which momentum may or may not be conserved, particularly in relation to the forces acting on the ships.

JessicaHelena
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Homework Statement



Screen Shot 2018-05-07 at 8.33.16 PM.png


Homework Equations


a = v/t
p=mv(?)

The Attempt at a Solution


If an engine is turned on, that means that the ships are accelerating since the engine pushes back on air with a force and air pushes back to propel the ships forward, so I thought (A) would be the answer, even though I was confused with other answers. However, the answer turns out to be (B)... Could someone explain why?
 

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Does the velocity of the center of mass change or does it stay the same? BTW, there is no air in deep space, but that's not important to the question.
 
@kuruman — From the graph (if I'm doing it right), I think it's increasing a little.
 
JessicaHelena said:
@kuruman — From the graph (if I'm doing it right), I think it's increasing a little.
Can you be more precise? What is the velocity of the CM at t = 0 and then at t = 10 s? There is an equation for it.
 
@kuruman — At t=10 the v = 8005 m/s and at t=0 v= 8000 m/s .

Since the given graphs are pretty linear, the graph of CM velocity could be given by v=8000 + 1/2(t) ?
 
It could but you don't need the approximation. Have you seen the equation $$V_{CM}=\frac{m_1v_1+m_2v_2}{m_1+m_2}~?$$ If so, use it. You can read the velocity values off the plot.
 
@kuruman

I think I actually get the same values using the equation you gave me above though... am I missing something? But now that I see the formula, it does involve momentum...
 
JessicaHelena said:
@kuruman

I think I actually get the same values using the equation you gave me above though... am I missing something? But now that I see the formula, it does involve momentum...
You are not missing anything. Yes, the velocity of the CM in this case is given by the formula that you quoted. So what conclusion can be drawn from the fact that the velocity of the CM depends on time? What does this have to do with the engine being turned on?
 
JessicaHelena said:
thought (A) would be the answer,
Kuruman is leading you to why B is a valid answer, but for completeness it is also important to rule out A.
Is it possible for ship 2 to be speeding up even if neither has its engine on?
 
  • #10
@haruspex — I don't know about the first ship, but ship 2 could speed up if the first ship pulls in the cable?
 
  • #11
Also, for justifying (B), I was wondering if I could say, "because there's a net force acting on the system the momentum is not conserved"?
 
  • #12
JessicaHelena said:
@haruspex — I don't know about the first ship, but ship 2 could speed up if the first ship pulls in the cable?
Right, so is A a valid reason for saying that at least one engine is on?
 
  • #13
JessicaHelena said:
Also, for justifying (B), I was wondering if I could say, "because there's a net force acting on the system the momentum is not conserved"?
Yes, but that is backwards from what you need. You want to show there is a net force.
 
  • #14
@haruspex — Since CM has velocity that's increasing, it's got a positive (constant) acceleration and so it has F (because F=ma), is that right?
 
  • #15
JessicaHelena said:
@haruspex — Since CM has velocity that's increasing, it's got a positive (constant) acceleration and so it has F (because F=ma), is that right?
Yes.
 

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