Evolution of pressure in navier stokes

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the evolution of pressure in the context of the Navier-Stokes equations, particularly focusing on how pressure is defined and its relationship with fluid dynamics. Participants explore theoretical aspects, assumptions regarding fluid types, and the implications of incompressibility.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses uncertainty about the conditions governing pressure in the Navier-Stokes equations, suggesting that the time evolution of pressure cannot be arbitrary.
  • Another participant notes that the definition of pressure depends on the fluid model being used, such as Newtonian fluids, ideal gases, or incompressible flows.
  • A participant questions whether the given Navier-Stokes equations adequately capture the necessary conditions for pressure, expressing skepticism about the absence of a time derivative of pressure in the equations.
  • It is proposed that pressure can be viewed as a Lagrange Multiplier related to the incompressibility constraint on velocity.
  • Another viewpoint suggests considering the pressure gradient as a driving acceleration, which may vary in significance depending on the flow speed and compressibility effects.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus; multiple competing views on the role and definition of pressure in the Navier-Stokes equations remain present throughout the discussion.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in understanding the relationship between pressure and velocity in the Navier-Stokes framework, particularly regarding assumptions about fluid incompressibility and the absence of certain terms in the equations.

jostpuur
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Hello, I haven't studied PDEs much yet, but checked out what the Navier Stokes equations are. I think I understood meaning of the terms in Navier Stokes equations, and what is their purpose in defining the time evolution of velocity of the fluid, but I couldn't see any conditions for the pressure. I would guess the time evolution of the pressure cannot be arbitrary. What equations define pressure in the fluid?
 
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Depends on the model: Newtonian fluid, ideal gas, certain types of fluids, incompressible flow, etc.
 
The description of the millennium problem (http://www.claymath.org/millennium/Navier-Stokes_Equations/ ) says, that there we can restrict to incompressible fluids, so I'll stick with it. If have difficulty believing, that the PDEs given in the problem description are the whole truth about the problem, because the PDEs don't even contain the time derivative of the pressure anywhere. Would any pair (u,p) that satisfies the given Navier-Stokes equations really suffice? My instinct says that there must be more conditions to be satisfied for the pressure.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
You can think pressure as the Lagrange Multiplier to the incompressibility constrain on the velocity.
 
It is useful to consider the pressure gradient as a driving acceleration - forcing function, together with an external body acceleration.

In higher-speed flows, the compressibility effect of the fluid can affect the pressure gradient. In low-speed momentum-driven flows, the pressure gradient term often plays little role in in the dynamics.
 

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