Explanation of the Bohr postulates' existence

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Timothy S.
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Bohr Quantum
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the existence and justification of the Bohr postulates in atomic theory, particularly regarding their role in explaining the emission spectra of hydrogen and other single-electron ions. Participants explore the historical context and the transition from classical to quantum mechanics, focusing on the nature of Bohr's assumptions and their empirical foundations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Historical
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that the term 'postulate' implies a lack of explanation, questioning whether there are attempts to justify the Bohr postulates.
  • Others argue that Bohr's model was an ad hoc step towards quantum mechanics, based more on guesswork than formal postulates, yet it successfully addressed empirical observations.
  • A participant highlights the historical development of quantum mechanics, mentioning the significant time gap between Planck's quantum hypothesis and Von Neumann's foundational work.
  • It is noted that Bohr's approach to the hydrogen atom involved applying quantum hypotheses to orbital angular momentum and using classical methods to quantize electron motion.
  • Another participant emphasizes that Bohr aimed to explain the emission spectra observed by Balmer and Rydberg, deriving formulas based on assumptions about atomic structure and electron orbits.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of Bohr's postulates, with some emphasizing their empirical roots and others questioning their theoretical justification. The discussion does not reach a consensus on the adequacy of explanations for the existence of the postulates.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the limitations of classical physics in explaining atomic behavior, suggesting that Bohr's assumptions were radical responses to empirical demands, but do not resolve the underlying theoretical questions.

Timothy S.
Messages
22
Reaction score
5
TL;DR
Are there any explainations why Bohr postulates take place?
I know that the word 'postulate' means something without explanation, so probably there are no words like 'electrons have stable orbits and radiate only when transiting from one to another, because .....' in quantum mechanics books, but were there at least worthy of mentioning attempts to explain why Bohr postulates take place?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Timothy S. said:
TL;DR Summary: Are there any explainations why Bohr postulates take place?

I know that the word 'postulate' means something without explanation, so probably there are no words like 'electrons have stable orbits and radiate only when transiting from one to another, because .....' in quantum mechanics books, but were there at least worthy of mentioning attempts to explain why Bohr postulates take place?
Bohr's model of the atom was an ad hoc intermediate step towards quantum mechanics. It was based more on guesswork than formal postulates. That said, QM itself can be built up from some formal postulates. For example:

https://www.sydney.edu.au/science/chemistry/~mjtj/CHEM3117/Resources/postulates.pdf
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Timothy S. and Albertus Magnus
It took some time before quantum mechanics was fleshed out in the mature form we have it today; there is a pretty good span of time between Plank's quantum hypothesis and the publication of Von Neumann's classic work on the foundations of quantum mechanics.

Bohr's treatment of the hydrogen atom is the third major attempt at using quantum reasoning to solve an otherwise intractable problem in physics (Einstein's use of the hypothesis to treat photoelectric phenomena was the second).

To tackle the problem of elucidating the spectra of the hydrogen atom, Bohr used the then revolutionary quantum hypothesis applied to the orbital angular momentum of the hydrogen atom's electron along with the correspondence principle to extend classical methods in Hamilton-Jacobi formalism to "quantize" the motion of the atomic electron thereby ushering the atom into the quantum age.

Thus, the primary reason behind Bohr's quantum assumption is that the empirical observations of experimental physics demanded something to account for the failure classical theoretical physics to explain the behavior of the simplest atomic systems. It was a radical out of the box approach that happened to work.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Lord Jestocost, Timothy S., Nugatory and 1 other person
Bohr was trying to explain the emission spectra of hydrogen (with its single electron) and single-electron ions such as He+ and Li++. Balmer and Rydberg had noticed that those wavelengths could be summarized by simple formulas. Bohr found that he could derive those formulas by making certain assumptions about atomic structure, using discrete classical planetary-style orbits for the electrons in the electric field of the nucleus.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 36 ·
2
Replies
36
Views
8K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
4K
  • · Replies 44 ·
2
Replies
44
Views
5K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K