What distinguishes the interior and exterior Schwarzschild metrics in Maxima?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the differences between the interior and exterior Schwarzschild metrics within the context of general relativity, particularly focusing on their implications for scalar curvature and the behavior of the stress-energy tensor. The scope includes theoretical aspects and mathematical reasoning related to these metrics.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants describe the exterior Schwarzschild solution as the vacuum solution outside a spherically symmetric mass distribution, while the interior solution represents the interior of a static constant density mass.
  • There is a claim that any vacuum solution has a scalar curvature of zero, but this does not imply that the curvature tensor is also zero; the exterior Schwarzschild metric has zero scalar curvature with a non-zero curvature tensor.
  • A participant questions whether the scalar curvature being zero means that the Einstein tensor reduces to the Ricci tensor in the field equations.
  • Another participant confirms that for a zero cosmological constant, the vacuum condition implies the stress-energy tensor is zero, leading to the vacuum Einstein equation where the Ricci tensor is zero.
  • There is confusion expressed regarding the role of the stress-energy tensor in relation to mass in the Newtonian approximation, particularly how the Schwarzschild equation could be useful in calculating Mercury's perihelion if there is no mass and no curvature.
  • One participant notes that inside the Sun, the stress-energy and Ricci tensors are non-zero, contrasting with the vacuum outside the Sun where these tensors are zero, despite the Riemann curvature being non-zero.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of scalar curvature being zero and the relationship between the stress-energy tensor and mass. There is no consensus on the interpretations of these concepts, indicating ongoing debate.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include potential misunderstandings about the implications of scalar curvature and the conditions under which the Schwarzschild metrics apply, particularly regarding the transition from interior to exterior solutions.

BWV
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playing around with ctensor & the Schwarzschild metric in Maxima

what is the difference between interior and exterior Schwarzschild metrics?
exteriorschwarzschild 4 [t,r,theta,phi] Schwarzschild metric
interiorschwarzschild 4 [t,z,u,v] Interior Schwarzschild metric

also when with the exterior Schwarzschild metric the scalar curvature is zero - this cannot be right, can it?

Function: scurvature ()
Returns the scalar curvature (obtained by contracting the Ricci tensor) of the Riemannian manifold with the given metric.
 
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BWV said:
what is the difference between interior and exterior Schwarzschild metrics?

The exteior solution is the vacuum solution outside a spherically symmetric mass distribution. The interior solution represents the interior of a static constant density mass. See

https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=323684.
BWV said:
also when with the exterior Schwarzschild metric the scalar curvature is zero - this cannot be right, can it?

Any vacuum solution has R = 0. This does not necessarily mean that the curvature tensor is zero. Exterior Schwarzschild has R = 0 with non-zero curvature tensor.
 
Last edited:
George Jones said:
The exteior solution is the vacuum solution outside a spherically symmetric mass distribution. The interior solution represents the interior of a static constant density mass. See

https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=323684.


Any vacuum solution has R = 0. This does not necessarily mean that the curvature tensor is zero. Exterior Schwarzschild has R = 0 with non-zero curvature tensor.

but the scalar curvature of zero means that the Einstein tensor reduces to the Ricci tensor in the field equation?
 
BWV said:
but the scalar curvature of zero means that the Einstein tensor reduces to the Ricci tensor in the field equation?

Right (for zero cosmological constant), and vacuum means that the stress-energy tensor is zero, so the vacuum Einstein equation, of which exterior Schwarzschild is one solution, is

R_{\mu \nu} = 0.
 
George Jones said:
Right (for zero cosmological constant), and vacuum means that the stress-energy tensor is zero, so the vacuum Einstein equation, of which exterior Schwarzschild is one solution, is

R_{\mu \nu} = 0.

I'm confused - isn't the stress-energy tensor what reduces to the mass in the Newtonian approximation? If there is no mass (and no curvature), how can the Schwarzschild equation have been useful in calculating Mercury's perihelion, which was its first important use, right?

Also, for the Ricci Tensor to be zero means that Schwarzschild can be reduced to a cartesian coordinate system, so I guess that when rs is zero this reduces to the Minkowski metric?

ed0b180aff4406023a0549e39e6d371d.png
 
Last edited:
Consider the Sun-Mercury system, and ignore Mercury's contribution to spacetime curvature as negligible compared that of the Sun. Outside the body of the Sun, there is (for the purposes of this exercise) a vacuum, and the stress-energy and Ricci tensors are zero outside the Sun, even though the Riemann curvature is non-zero outside the Sun. Since spacetime curvature is non-zero outside the Sun, there is no extended inertial coordinate system outside the Sun. The amount of spacetime curvature outside the Sun depends on the mass of the Sun, and, consequently, the amount of change perihelion position depends on the mass of the Sun.

Inside the body of the Sun, the stress-energy and Ricci tensors are non-zero.
 

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