Ricci tensor of schwarzschild metric

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the Ricci tensor of the Schwarzschild metric, particularly focusing on the implications of varying the functions involved in the metric. Participants explore the conditions under which certain components of the Ricci tensor may be non-vanishing and the relationship between the metric tensor's properties and the Ricci tensor's structure.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asserts that in the Schwarzschild metric, the Ricci tensor components are expected to be non-vanishing when the functions depend on both r and t, specifically mentioning the emergence of a non-diagonal term, $$R_{tr}$$.
  • Another participant counters that it is incorrect to assume all Ricci tensors must be diagonal, noting that while the Ricci tensor is symmetric, it does not have to be diagonal.
  • A question is raised about how to determine which components of the Ricci tensor are non-vanishing, with one participant suggesting that one must examine the form of the Ricci tensor before making such determinations.
  • It is mentioned that the metric tensor being diagonal does not guarantee a diagonal Ricci tensor due to the dependence of the Ricci tensor on derivatives of the metric tensor.
  • There is a discussion about the context of the Schwarzschild metric, with some participants suggesting that the original post may refer to a more general spherically symmetric spacetime rather than strictly the vacuum Schwarzschild metric.
  • One participant acknowledges a misunderstanding regarding the type of Schwarzschild metric being discussed, indicating a shift in focus to the interior Schwarzschild metric.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of the Ricci tensor in relation to the metric tensor, with some asserting that non-diagonal components can arise while others question the assumptions about the metric's implications. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the specific context of the Schwarzschild metric being referenced.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the discussion may involve assumptions about the nature of the Schwarzschild metric, particularly whether it pertains to vacuum solutions or more general spherically symmetric spacetimes. There is also an acknowledgment of the potential for confusion regarding the specific type of metric being analyzed.

PhyAmateur
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In schwarzschild metric:

$$ds^2 = e^{v}dt^2 - e^{u}dr^2 - r^2(d\theta^2 +sin^2\theta d\phi^2)$$
where v and u are functions of r only
when we calculate the Ricci tensor $R_{\mu\nu}$ the non vanishing ones will only be $$R_{tt}$$,$$R_{rr}$$, $$R_{\theta\theta}$$,$$R_{\phi\phi}$$
But when u and v now depend on r and t, we get an extra term of Ricci tensor which is the
$$R_{tr}$$ I thought that if our matrix is diagonal we should not get a non diagonal Ricci tensor and all the Ricci tensors must be diagonal. Am I mistaken?
 
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You are mistaken that all Ricci tensors must be diagonal. The Ricci tensor is symmetric, but it does not have to be diagonal.
 
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Aha, is there a way to find out which are the nonvanishing? Or I will have to try it for every single pair?
 
No, a diagonal metric tensor doesn't have to lead to diagonal ricci tensor. That is because it may be true that g_{\mu \nu} is diagonal, in practice only g_{\mu \mu} is non-vanishing, however the Ricci Tensor also has indices that come from derivatives of g_{\mu \nu}, and since the last can depend on any x^\rho then its derivatives don't have to vanish in general. In other word you can't write R_{\mu \nu} = (A) g_{\mu \nu} with A an index free operator with derivatives etc...

As for whether you can determine the non-vanishing, I think you have to look at the Ricci tensor's form before determining it. In most books I've seen they always start and derive everything up to Ricci scalar...
 
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pervect said:
because it's a vacuum space-time

I'm not sure the OP was only talking about the vacuum Schwarzschild metric; based on the line element he wrote down, I think he intended the more general usage of "Schwarzschild-type metric", meaning a metric for a spherically symmetric spacetime, not necessarily vacuum, that uses Schwarzschild coordinates (i.e., spherical coordinates with ##r## defined as circumference divided by ##2 \pi## ). This usage is not terribly common, AFAICT, but it is found, for example, at some points in MTW.
 
Ooops, that's the interior Schwarzschild metric...
 
PeterDonis said:
I'm not sure the OP was only talking about the vacuum Schwarzschild metric;
Yeah, my bad
 

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