Expressing p in Terms of q, r, and s from Quadratic Equation (1)

  • Thread starter Thread starter phospho
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Weird
Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around expressing the variable p in terms of q, r, and s from a given equation involving a square root and a quadratic-like structure. The equation is presented as 6pq + r = √(r² - 4ps), with the stipulation that p ≠ 0.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the relationship between the given equation and the quadratic formula, questioning whether using the quadratic formula constitutes "squaring" the original equation. Some express confusion about the correctness of their derived expressions for p and the implications of the coefficients in the context of the quadratic formula.

Discussion Status

Several participants have attempted to manipulate the equation to express p, with varying degrees of success. There is an ongoing exploration of different rearrangements and interpretations of the equation, with some participants expressing confusion about the validity of their approaches and the resulting expressions for p.

Contextual Notes

Participants are navigating the constraints of not squaring the original equation or its rearrangements while trying to derive p. There are mentions of specific values for coefficients in the context of the quadratic formula, which may not align perfectly with the original equation's structure.

phospho
Messages
250
Reaction score
0
[itex]6pq+r=\sqrt{r^2-4ps}, \ \ p\neq 0 \ \ (1)[/itex]

Without squaring (1) or any of it's rearrangements, express p in terms of only q, r and s.I realized this is some sort of quadratic formula so I got [tex]p = \dfrac{-r+\sqrt{r^2-4ps}}{6q}[/tex]

so for the quadratic ap^2 + bp + c,
a = 3q, b = r, c = s,
3qp^2 + rp + s

i'm stuck from here.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
phospho said:
[itex]6pq+r=\sqrt{r^2-4ps}, \ \ p\neq 0 \ \ (1)[/itex]

Without squaring (1) or any of it's rearrangements, express p in terms of only q, r and s.

I realized this is some sort of quadratic formula so I got [tex]p = \dfrac{-r+\sqrt{r^2-4ps}}{6q}[/tex]

so for the quadratic ap^2 + bp + c,
a = 3q, b = r, c = s,
3qp^2 + rp + s

I'm stuck from here.
Does the quadratic formula count as squaring equation (1) ? Just asking ...

If it's OK to use the quadratic formula, then notice that in relation to the standard quadratic equation,
[itex]ax^2+bx+c=0[/itex]​
the quantities under the radical are the coefficients, a, b, and c.
[itex]\displaystyle x=\frac{-b\pm\sqrt{b^2-4ac}}{2a}[/itex]​

Puttying this in a form similar to eq. (1) gives
[itex]\displaystyle 2ax+b=\pm\sqrt{b^2-4ac}[/itex]​
 
phospho said:
[itex]6pq+r=\sqrt{r^2-4ps}, \ \ p\neq 0 \ \ (1)[/itex]

Without squaring (1) or any of it's rearrangements, express p in terms of only q, r and s.


I realized this is some sort of quadratic formula so I got [tex]p = \dfrac{-r+\sqrt{r^2-4ps}}{6q}[/tex]

so for the quadratic ap^2 + bp + c,
a = 3q, b = r, c = s,
3qp^2 + rp + s

i'm stuck from here.


errm... [itex]4ac \neq 4ps[/itex] so this isn't quite so nice
 
SammyS said:
Does the quadratic formula count as squaring equation (1) ? Just asking ...

If it's OK to use the quadratic formula, then notice that in relation to the standard quadratic equation,
[itex]ax^2+bx+c=0[/itex]​
the quantities under the radical are the coefficients, a, b, and c.
[itex]\displaystyle x=\frac{-b\pm\sqrt{b^2-4ac}}{2a}[/itex]​

Puttying this in a form similar to eq. (1) gives
[itex]\displaystyle 2ax+b=\pm\sqrt{b^2-4ac}[/itex]​
It doesn't no.

I somehow managin to get [tex]p = \dfrac{-(rq+s)}{3q^2}[/tex] which is incorrect

gabbagabbahey said:
errm... [itex]4ac \neq 4ps[/itex] so this isn't quite so nice

could you explain?
 
Last edited:
never mind I rearranged into [itex]3q = \dfrac{-r+\sqrt{r^2-4ps}}{2p}[/itex] and got the right answer.

thanks!
 
Last edited:
phospho said:
never mind I rearranged into [itex]3q = \dfrac{-r\sqrt{r^2-4ps}}{2p}[/itex] and got the right answer.
Not sure how you got the right answer, because what you wrote doesn't follow from the original. Also, I thought the question was to...
phospho said:
express p in terms of only q, r and s.
Color me confused. :confused:
 
phospho said:
never mind I rearranged into [itex]3q = \dfrac{-r\sqrt{r^2-4ps}}{2p}[/itex] and got the right answer.

thanks!
So, what did you get for p ?
 
SammyS said:
So, what did you get for p ?
eumyang said:
Not sure how you got the right answer, because what you wrote doesn't follow from the original. Also, I thought the question was to...

Color me confused. :confused:

well the original equation is [itex]6pq + r = \sqrt{r^2-4ps}[/itex] I rearranged to get [itex]3q = \dfrac{-r+\sqrt{r^2-4ps}}{2p}[/itex] I then compared it with [itex]x = \dfrac{-b+\sqrt{b^2-4ac}}{2a}[/itex] giving x = 3q, b = r, c = s so: [itex]p(3q)^2 +r3q +s = 0[/itex] rearranging to get [itex]p = \dfrac{-(3qr + s)}{9q^2}[/itex] which is correct (or so it says.)
 
phospho said:
well the original equation is [itex]6pq + r = \sqrt{r^2-4ps}[/itex] I rearranged to get [itex]3q = \dfrac{-r+\sqrt{r^2-4ps}}{2p}[/itex] I then compared it with [itex]x = \dfrac{-b+\sqrt{b^2-4ac}}{2a}[/itex] giving x = 3q, b = r, c = s so: [itex]p(3q)^2 +r3q +s = 0[/itex] rearranging to get [itex]p = \dfrac{-(3qr + s)}{9q^2}[/itex] which is correct (or so it says.)

I agree.
 

Similar threads

Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
4K
Replies
7
Views
3K
Replies
15
Views
4K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
Replies
48
Views
6K
  • · Replies 35 ·
2
Replies
35
Views
15K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K