Extra dimensions vs. dark matter in the LHC

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the potential use of the Large Hadron Collider (LHC) to investigate the existence of extra dimensions and dark matter. Participants explore how conservation of energy and momentum can be applied in this context, particularly in relation to detecting particles that interact primarily through gravity and the implications of missing energy in particle interactions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that conservation of energy at the LHC could help identify both extra dimensions and dark matter, particularly through the detection of particles that only interact via gravity.
  • Others argue that missing energy represents just one aspect of a more complex problem, requiring multiple generalized coordinates to fully understand the interactions and correlations involved.
  • A participant questions whether it is possible to determine how much of the missing energy corresponds to the mass of a particle, suggesting that statistical analysis over a sample may provide insights.
  • Another participant mentions the concept of "Dalitz plots" as a method to analyze energy distributions and mass determination in particle interactions.
  • It is noted that if two processes (missing particle vs. extra dimension) cannot be distinguished, their interference complicates the analysis, requiring a more nuanced understanding of the underlying physics.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various viewpoints on the relationship between missing energy, extra dimensions, and dark matter, indicating that multiple competing views remain and the discussion is unresolved.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations regarding the assumptions made about the models discussed, as well as the dependence on specific definitions and the complexity of the interactions being analyzed.

kashiark
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It is my understanding that physicists hope to use conservation of energy in the LHC to determine if there are multiple dimensions AND if there is dark matter. Let's suppose that through conservation of momentum, we detect a particle that apparently only reacts through gravity, and there is some amount of energy lost. Would we just E=mc² to determine how massive the particle is? What if more energy is lost via extra dimensions?
 
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kashiark said:
It is my understanding that physicists hope to use conservation of energy in the LHC to determine if there are multiple dimensions AND if there is dark matter
The missing energy is just one "dimension" to the problem. In practice, you need many more (generalized) "coordinates". Different physics will show different behaviors in the interplay (correlations) between those coordinates, which has to be studied by simulation but is not necessarily model-dependent(*). In the literature, this us called "signature" for dark-matter for instance.

(*) For instance, you have a model predicting the existence of a spin 1/2 particle. Given the assumptions of this model, you calculate a cross-section. The angular decay in the rest-frame of your model-dependent particle is itself model-independent (or better, depends not on the assumptions of your own model, but only on Lorentz invariance)
 
So with all of that other information they can determine how much of the missing energy is actually the mass of the particle?
 
kashiark said:
So with all of that other information they can determine how much of the missing energy is actually the mass of the particle?
Depending on which reaction exactly, it may or may not be done on an event-by-event basis. But given the entire sample, using statistical analysis, yes. You may want to read about "Dalitz plots" for instance. Note that, otherwise (if they could not determine the mass of the missing particle), they would simply not understand anything !
 
Huh, thanks! That's been bothering me for weeks.
 
Also, note a very general thing : IF you manage to find an example where even in principle you can NOT distinguish between the two final states (say missing particle VS extra-dimension), THEN the two processes interfere (you can not add cross-sections, you must add the amplitudes). Typically, the production of your particle would be enhanced in some kinematical regions and suppressed somewhere else, due to extra-dimensions. Now in this case, it's not so trivial to make general statements. But you can already imagine that the dependencies become more complicated, say richer, and it's not impossible that you get a better handle on your parameters. But I expect that proponents of extra-dimensions would in any case like to cross check the results using another channel without this specific particle.
 

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