LHC about to restart - some frequently asked questions

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In summary, the LHC is restarting after a two-year break and it collides protons with protons to record data for experiments. Scientists can access this data from anywhere in the world, and meetings and workshops are held at CERN to stay up to date on research. The LHC collects 100 billion protons in groups called "bunches" and collides them, with a few collisions occurring each time. These collisions are important for studying short-lived particles, which can only be observed through their decay products. While colorful event displays are often included in news articles about the LHC, they are not used for studying collisions - the data is analyzed by computers. It is possible to visit the detectors at CERN, but the
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The LHC is about to restart after a break of two years - beams could go around as early as today (you can watch it here but that is very technical). There are some misconceptions about it and questions I got asked multiple times, so I thought I write some answers to clarify how "working for the LHC" works. This is the n+1th place where you can find those answers, but with a different focus and at a different place. Feel free to ask more questions!

With "working for the LHC", I actually mean "working for one of the experiments at LHC" - the LHC is just the accelerator, it has four big experiments (ATLAS, CMS, ALICE, LHCb) and some smaller ones."You work for a CERN experiment, but not at CERN?"
Right. Most of the work is data analysis in some way - the detectors produce huge amounts of data (roughly 1 TB per second) that have to get filtered (there is no way to store all of it) and analyzed. Data is stored in a worldwide computing grid and can be accessed from everywhere in the world. There is no need to be at CERN all the time. Detector development for future upgrades is done all over the world as well.

There are a few scientists that actually run the detectors from the control rooms at CERN in shifts, and a few more experts are available to come to the control rooms if necessary - but these are very small groups compared to the size of the collaborations (about one thousand for ALICE and LHCb, several thousands for ATLAS and CMS).
There are also scientists working on the actual detector hardware, exchanging parts and so on while the LHC is shut down, but again that is a relatively small group.

Many important meetings and workshops are at CERN, so visits there (typically for 1-2 weeks) are common. In general, meetings are very important to stay up to date - what is done where, who does what (to avoid doing the same thing multiple times, or not at all) and so on. You cannot visit CERN for every meeting (typically several per week that can be related to your work), so most of the time the meetings are done via the internet."When do they take your data?"
Many experimental sites work like that - you get some hours to weeks of time to run your experiment, and then you leave again and analyze what you got. The LHC does not work that way: it collides protons with protons (sometimes lead ions) and you cannot choose what happens in the collisions. The experiments have to record everything that could be interesting, every time the LHC is colliding protons. Ideally the LHC would run 24/7 but 30%-40% of the time is more realistic due to various technical issues. Analyses often look for rare processes or need a very high precision (you want to be better than the previous analysis), so they usually need the collision data from months to years to get enough statistics. Both ATLAS and CMS had about 2*1015 collisions so far, LHCb and ALICE have lower numbers."How do you collide protons?"
This is not as trivial as it sounds like. Protons are tiny - 10-15 m in diameter. There is no way to focus them well enough to let two specific protons collide. The LHC collects about 100 billion protons in groups called "bunches", thinner than a human hair and with a length of a few centimeters. In 2012 there were about 1400 of these bunches per direction circulating, the plan for 2015 is to have 2800. These bunches are "collided" - most protons just go through without any influence, but a few of them (~25-30 in ATLAS and CMS, ~3 in LHCb, 0 to 1 in ALICE) collide. The others go around the ring to have another chance of collision later. The bunches were 15 m apart (soon 7.5 m), giving collision processes 20 million times per second (soon 40 million)."Do you (personally) study the Higgs boson?"
No. The LHC experiments study many different particles, the Higgs is certainly an important one but not the only one.Event displays
When you read news articles about the LHC, they often include colorful pictures like this one. While it can be possible to make a guess what happened based on the picture, no one actually looks at them to study the collisions. There is no way to look at 1015 of these pictures, you need some way to let a computer analyze them. In addition, you are interested in numbers these pictures do not show.None of the particles we study hit the detectors
This is often surprising. All the particles that fly through the detector are well-studied and the detectors are not able to improve our knowledge about them. So how does it work?
The particles we are interested in are very short-living. They decay before they would reach even the innermost parts of the detector. Their decay products might decay again, but eventually you get particles that live long enough to fly through the detector, which records their particle type, flight direction and energy. Based on these decay products, it is possible to reconstruct what happened in the collision.

This is not completely true, a few particles are living long enough to have a chance to reach the detectors, but that is very uncommon. And even there you are mainly interested in finding their decay products instead of the actual particles.Is it possible to visit the detectors?
Yes! Unfortunately, the best time to do so was in the last two years during the long shutdown. The LHC does shorter breaks every winter and longer ones are planned for the future as well, there might be more chances.

More LHC articles:
Part 2: https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/lhc-part-2-commissioning-2/
Part 3: https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/lhc-part-3-protons-large-barn/
Part 4: https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/lhc-part-4-searching-new-particles-decays/
 
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Ohh wow, had dreamed to see LHC since many years and coming to see It on this Wednesday with a group of 40 something students as a school trip, now we can't go down there? What are we going to do, just chill in Geneva while eating Swiss chocolate?
 
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ryanuser said:
What are we going to do, just chill in Geneva while eating Swiss chocolate?
They have some good skiing spots around there.
 
  • #4
ryanuser said:
Ohh wow, had dreamed to see LHC since many years and coming to see It on this Wednesday with a group of 40 something students as a school trip, now we can't go down there? What are we going to do, just chill in Geneva while eating Swiss chocolate?
Things you can visit:
- if organized (easy): a control room (the one for ATLAS is close the the main CERN site, the main accelerator control center is in Prévessin)
- if organized in advance: some detector hardware behind the shielding walls.
- if organized in advance: CERN has some accelerator parts that are not in operation right now. It might be possible to visit something.
- building 40 looks interesting and has some posters and stuff
- the globe (the wooden sphere, a small exhibition center)
- the area around restaurant 1 ("R1"). People are sitting around everywhere, working, talking about their work, relaxing, playing games, ... all mixed together. A very nice place I think.
 
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ryanuser said:
Ohh wow, had dreamed to see LHC since many years and coming to see It on this Wednesday with a group of 40 something students as a school trip, now we can't go down there?

CERN is a scientific research facility that sometimes allows tours. It is not a theme park that sometimes does scientific research. The first priority of the laboratory is not to give tours. Some - not all, but some - school tours forget this, and there have been some incidents of bad behavior. Enough of these, and tour groups will be seeing less and less of CERN.

In particular, if you visit the ATLAS control room, do not tap - or worse, bang - the glass. People are trying to work, and it's disrespectful to treat them like monkeys in a zoo.
 
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Vanadium 50 said:
In particular, if you visit the ATLAS control room, do not tap - or worse, bang - the glass. People are trying to work, and it's disrespectful to treat them like monkeys in a zoo.
Personal experience? It looks very specific.You are allowed to hit the emergency off button outside the ATLAS control room (the one with a sign telling you you are allowed to).
 
  • #7
Not many folks visit the CMS control room in Cessy.
 
  • #8
Does CERN plan on probing further into the electroweak symmetry breaking? What is the rough estimate of the energy required to observe other symmetry breaking processes that occurred in the early universe?
 
  • #9
Vanadium 50 said:
CERN is a scientific research facility that sometimes allows tours. It is not a theme park that sometimes does scientific research. The first priority of the laboratory is not to give tours.

True. But OTOH, maybe it helps to just learn to live with the visitors' inconvenience a little. After all, funding our large experiment does depend a lot on public goodwill.

Kids will be kids, But at least they go home & tell their parents. So next time a hundred million comes up for approval maybe there's more awareness where it is going to. It is getting increasingly difficult for large basic science experiments to get taxpayer dollars.

Maybe I'll endure being treated like a monkey in a zoo for a few hours just to humor they audience.
 
  • #10
The LHC is running! Beams circulated in both directions this morning. Now we'll get some weeks of commissioning, and first collisions probably end of May.

PWiz said:
Does CERN plan on probing further into the electroweak symmetry breaking?
Sure. The Higgs couplings will be measured in much more detail, together with various other measurements.
What is the rough estimate of the energy required to observe other symmetry breaking processes that occurred in the early universe?
Maybe supersymmetry, maybe something completely new is visible. The unification of the strong and the electroweak force is out of reach by orders of magnitude.
 
  • #11
@mfb

Great post! Can you elaborate on some of the LHC risks hyped up by the media? I assume real risk factors are different. What are they? e.g. I remember a Japanese experiment in a water tank that lost thousands of photomultipliers in a massive cascading implosion. Any different kinds of concerns with LHC? Can it blow itself up? :P
 
  • #12
"Splashes" (non-colliding beams deliberately directed to material to provide particles to the detectors) happened this morning.
 
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rollingstein said:
Can you elaborate on some of the LHC risks hyped up by the media?
Black holes and so on? Completely pointless

Damage to the machine? Well, that is possible.
The accident 2008 showed how much energy gets stored in the superconducting coils, but they got improved significantly, and they have been tested up to to the full current that will be used this year, so we know they work.
The beam is another issue - its maximal energy is similar to the kinetic energy of a large airplane before take-off. There are two "beam dumps" designed to handle this energy, but if the beam at full energy gets lost somewhere else it could burn a hole through the machine there. The low-energetic beams used now are not an issue.
 
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It would be equally interesting if instead of shedding some more light (pardon the pun) on the Higgs mechanism, the LHC made the reason behind baryogenesis after the inflationary epoch less obscure.
 
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rollingstein said:
Maybe I'll endure being treated like a monkey in a zoo for a few hours just to humor they audience.

A few hours every time you are on shift? (At least day shift) I think you may underestimate the fraction of time tours are going on: it's pretty much non-stop M-S during the day. I am not arguing that there shouldn't be tours - I am arguing that students should behave appropriately. If by "kids will be kids" the argument is that they shouldn't be expected to, I would turn that around and say that in that case, the spaces that they should be allowed to visit should be reviewed to consider that.
 
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PWiz said:
It would be equally interesting if instead of shedding some more light (pardon the pun) on the Higgs mechanism, the LHC made the reason behind baryogenesis after the inflationary epoch less obscure.
Well, the energy is not sufficient to test that scale directly. Precision measurements of CP violation, especially at LHCb, might help to find deviations from the Standard Model.

There are some unexplained effects, but nothing that would clearly be unaccountable for in the standard model.
 
  • #17
Vanadium 50 said:
A few hours every time you are on shift? (At least day shift) I think you may underestimate the fraction of time tours are going on: it's pretty much non-stop M-S during the day. I am not arguing that there shouldn't be tours - I am arguing that students should behave appropriately. If by "kids will be kids" the argument is that they shouldn't be expected to, I would turn that around and say that in that case, the spaces that they should be allowed to visit should be reviewed to consider that.

Fair enough. Can't argue against that.
 
  • #18
mfb said:
Well, the energy is not sufficient to test that scale directly. Precision measurements of CP violation, especially at LHCb, might help to find deviations from the Standard Model.

There are some unexplained effects, but nothing that would clearly be unaccountable for in the standard model.
Well I don't mean to dispute the validity of the theory, but I'm curious nonetheless - what does the standard model have to say about baryogenesis? Any proposed hypothetical particle which is not observable today or some unaccounted symmetry? Has any suggestive data collected by the LHC been released by CERN?
 
  • #19
The standard model allows a small violation of the baryon number as nonperturbative process, but the violation is too small to account for the "large" baryon asymmetry we see today.
 
  • #20
Are you talking about the Sakharov conditions? And is the figure the all too often heard "1 in billion baryons survived for each baryon anti-baryon collision"?
 
  • #21
Vanadium 50 said:
A few hours every time you are on shift? (At least day shift) I think you may underestimate the fraction of time tours are going on: it's pretty much non-stop M-S during the day. I am not arguing that there shouldn't be tours - I am arguing that students should behave appropriately. If by "kids will be kids" the argument is that they shouldn't be expected to, I would turn that around and say that in that case, the spaces that they should be allowed to visit should be reviewed to consider that.
Hm, but is this bad behavior of visitors so common? I visited CERN once with a group of other scientists during a workshop, and we got a great tour at CMS and ALICE. Of course, there nobody misbehaved. Also my experimental colleagues at GSI sometimes organize such tours, and I've never heard about problems of this kind. As a theorist, I gave sometimes popular-science talks to high school students, and this always was great fun; the pupils being showing a lot of interest in even complicated things like quantum mechanics or quantum field theory, the standard model, cosmology. Of course, it's cooked down as much as possible and as little real mathematics as possible, but still, I find it encouraging that young students are usually very interested in natural science, and last but not least, in my opinion, the public has the right to learn about, what's done with the tax money spent in fundamental research, as at CERN and other institutes.
 
  • #22
PWiz said:
Are you talking about the Sakharov conditions? And is the figure the all too often heard "1 in billion baryons survived for each baryon anti-baryon collision"?
Right.
The ratio 1 in a billion is the number of baryons divided by the number of CMB photons, it is not directly related to the fraction of baryons that survived (that is tricky to define).
 
  • #23
How much is the electric power needed to run the LHC? Anyone know? Is this all taken from the grid?

I'm wildly guessing 50 MW? (Let's leave out the off site power needed for the number crunching)
 
  • #24
rollingstein said:
How much is the electric power needed to run the LHC?

One could argue anything between zero (the amount of energy needed to power the magnets at flattop) to the entire CERN usage, which covers the refrigerators, injector complex, controls, etc.
 
  • #25
I guess the question is about how much energy is in the beams?
Is it a number that could be approximated in terms of conventional power such as kilowatts?
 
  • #26
Anyone know how long it will be before the machine is up to the full 14 TeV energy?
 
  • #27
rollingstein said:
How much is the electric power needed to run the LHC? Anyone know? Is this all taken from the grid?
120 MW in regular operation is a number given by several sources, or 170 MW if you include cryogenics and the experiments. 700-800 GWh per year.
It is taken from the grid.

rootone said:
I guess the question is about how much energy is in the beams?
Is it a number that could be approximated in terms of conventional power such as kilowatts?
In the upcoming run: 6.5 TeV/proton * 100 billion protons/bunch * 2800 bunches/direction * 2 directions = 600 MJ.
That is the energy the LHC needs in 5 seconds, but new beams are accelerated once every few hours only.

phyzguy said:
Anyone know how long it will be before the machine is up to the full 14 TeV energy?
They won't go beyond 13 TeV this year. 14 TeV: maybe next year.
 
  • #28
rootone said:
I guess the question is about how much energy is in the beams?

360 megajoules is nominal.

phyzguy said:
Anyone know how long it will be before the machine is up to the full 14 TeV energy?

Not this year, and likely never. The magnets made by "Firm 3" seem to be struggling.
 
  • #29
Vanadium 50 said:
One could argue anything between zero (the amount of energy needed to power the magnets at flattop) to the entire CERN usage, which covers the refrigerators, injector complex, controls, etc.

I'll clarify. I meant what is the max peak load that LHC pulls from the grid.
 
  • #30
mfb said:
120 MW in regular operation is a number given by several sources, or 170 MW if you include cryogenics and the experiments. 700-800 GWh per year.

I suppose they have some massive cooling towers too to dissipate the heat generated? Those large magnets are water cooled aren't they?
 
  • #32
The main dipoles are superconducting, water-cooling would not help. About 100 tons of liquid helium at 2 K are used (and liquid nitrogen for pre-cooling), the LHC cryosystem is the largest in the world.
The required electric power is spread out over several components along the ring, they don't need large cooling towers.
 
  • #33
mfb said:
The main dipoles are superconducting, water-cooling would not help. About 100 tons of liquid helium at 2 K are used (and liquid nitrogen for pre-cooling), the LHC cryosystem is the largest in the world.

I see. So, they keep the He in a closed circuit & reliquify whatever evaporates via expansion turbines etc.? He might be too expensive to lose.

OTOH the liq. N2 they just let evaporate away & order tanker trucks from Linde / Praxair etc.? Or is there a cryogenic air separation unit on site? At those tonnages might make sense.
 
  • #34
The more I read about the LHC the more I'm fascinated by the Engineering rather than the actual Physics it is trying to do. :)
 
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  • #35
Helium is too expensive to lose, that is in a closed cycle.
CERN makes the liquid nitrogen on site - I don't know how much gets recycled and how much is extracted from air, but 10,000 tons of liquid nitrogen would be impractical to deliver with trucks.

See the LHC cooling page for more details.
 

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