Extremely discouraged by this one guy

[JasonJo]

there is this one guy in my Multivariable Calculus course, he knows everything.
and it is very discouraging. when he doesn't come to class, i really get the lecture.
* granted, i am not working anywhere near as hard as i should be working, but it is now becoming a distraction whenever he comes to class. he just knows like everything.
i looked up on my school's mathematics home page. we offer a problem of the month, i looked at the problem, i didnt even have a clue how to begin. not a damn clue. 8 solutions were submitted and his was deemd the best, i looked at it, it looked like a paper off arxiv.
btw, he's a freshman!
its just very discouraging to see someone understand everything so easily.
however, i do know he is from eastern europe and a lot of my friends from that area say on the average, students in eastern europe know so much more than the average american high school student.
blah, i guess this was just my way to vent.
**EDIT: then again, i haven't been working at all, i haven't read the last 4 sections of the textbook. I am just knowing enough to do well on exams...
im gunna try giving it my all, and hopefully i won't have to worry about comparing myself to other people

 

[Student_at_CUNY]

Do not get discouraged since you may not be putting in as much work as he does. Also remember you can always learn anything in books. May take you longer or shorter than other people but in the end you both know how to solve the problem.

 

[heman]

yeah it doesn't matter because the point is...he must have had done more work than you and you can beat him by trying doing more things in your time...
Hom much you learn ,there will always be peoples who know more than you..Try to make use of them,understand them..that's it.

 

[CrusaderSean]

My philosophy is learning is not a competition against others, but with myself. There will always be someone who's better than you in one area or another, and you should appreciate that and learn from them. I went to high school with a presidential scholar and other extremely bright people. I was a bit intimidated in high school and didn't focus on my own studies. I learned not to do that in college and just concentrate on what I'm capable of.

Ultimately, you'll have to compete with others in job market or grad school. But I still think it's a good idea to not fret so much about that. Afterall, if you do the best you can, there's not much to complain about.

 

[samh]

I feel your pain JasonJo... I have similar issues but not particularly with anyone in my class. People always say learning math is not a race but it's extremely discouraging to know that there kids out there that take calculus 2 in high school (I only know of only one but I'm sure there are more), while I'm taking it in my second year of college! I look at some of the schedules students over at Caltech take and it just drives me crazy. Unlike you though I read all the sections thoroughly and study ALL THE TIME, every single day, and hang out around here to be around other math people but it's just not enough. Sure it's not a race I guess but it's kind of embarrassing sometimes. But I like to look on the bright side every once in a while. Merely taking a class over calculus makes you better than SOOOO many people at math that it's ridiculous. Go up to anyone on the street and ask anyone what 1/0 is and chances are high they'll say 0. My math teacher constantly makes fun of the people who come in the tutoring center and ask why 4/7+5/6 doesn't equal 9/13 and so on (yeah he's kind of a mean guy heh). But whatever.

a lot of my friends from that area say on the average, students in eastern europe know so much more than the average american high school student.

If any European guy over here could elaborate on this that'd be nice. I don't know, I know a lot of people from Europe through other forums and they're no math geniuses. I know in China and Japan they make their kids work like crazy but I don't know about Europe.

 

[PerennialII]

its just very discouraging to see someone understand everything so easily.
however, i do know he is from eastern europe and a lot of my friends from that area say on the average, students in eastern europe know so much more than the average american high school student.

In response to what samh and others said and what know of 'Eastern European' education (naturally the accuracy of this statement is somewhat questionable, but in general could say applies) - they tend to get a bit more 'heavily involved' in math earlier on, and as such tend to go 'deeper' as well earlier on (usually "theoretical" aspects of sciences, think pretty much irrespective of the field, are in somewhat higher regard over there). What this means in practice is that the fella has likely already put in far more hours than you've, so it's just a matter of you getting as much studying under your belt.

 

[Pengwuino]

You may also want to take into account the fact that he may have self-studied... Who really knows! In my chemistry class, i could damn well near sleep through every lecture and never study for a test (and i pretty much do) and i get top scores in the class. Why? Physics major, already went through basic modern physics! So its all a breeze for me. Thats alway ssomething to consider... they may not be understanding things faster... they may just already know how to do it.

 

[Igor_S]

there is this one guy in my Multivariable Calculus course, he knows everything.
and it is very discouraging. when he doesn't come to class, i really get the lecture.
* granted, i am not working anywhere near as hard as i should be working, but it is now becoming a distraction whenever he comes to class. he just knows like everything.
...

This has happened to me, also. There was also one guy who was so much ahead everybody else he aced every class in the first 3 years. The thing is - he's high school* had much more math classes than mine (it think he said he had like 7 or 8 math classes every week and I had 4. This helped him very much and I had to do a lot more study on my own. But, further I go, differences between him and the rest of us became much smaller. I even got better grades than him in some of my final-year classes, so don't give up - your time will come .

Btw, I'm from Eastern Europe. I would never say that I am smarter than anyone (wheter he is from US or anywhere else), but if you want I could write what we learned in math classes in high school and university.


---
* we have 4 years high school, then another 4+ years at university (Why + ? In my university average time to get a diploma degree (I think equiv to BSc) is 7.5 years , but in recent years it has decreased a little, because some classes have changed substantialy)

 

[bomba923]

If I were you JasonJo, I would learn from this guy. Hang out around him for a while, find out how he learns, his strategy, etc...

Take him as your new competition. Strive to excel beyond him in your Multivariable Calculus class.

Btw, I also take Multivariable Calculus at a local college during evenings after high school (hey, I'm still a HS senior! I'm 17)...and I'd probably fit the description of that guy. I don't really do much of the work anyway, and I still get A's on tests (~92%+).

Personally, I think my calculus class is moving a little too slowly. Only if I don't understand something right away will I write it in my notebook (to further practice it a little).

**And one other thing: Ok...I'm the only high school student in that class, the rest are adults. You know, I really expected a mature learning attitude from them. What I keep hearing is the same old "GIve us a 1/2 point more! Your tests are unfair! We did all that work!"---->BAHH! The same old high school crap seems to follow us into college.
For example, I also have people in my class blaming my instructor for putting limit questions on the test requiring L'Hopital's Rule. What I say: People! C'mon-->this is CalcIII, not CalcI. It's your fault for forgetting how to use it! It's your fault for forgetting to evaluate mixed partials when the test question specifically asks, "Find all the first and second partial derivatives of f(x,y)."

------------------------------------------------

However...when I took 1st semester Organic Chemistry, that was the first class I actually had to spend many hours to study for and do a large amount of work in order to be skillful and problem-solve mechanisms rapidly! However, I enjoyed it! And it was refreshing! (b/c I do enjoy chemistry)! Also a huge amount of memorization. 90% of my time I spent for the class--was spent studying/memorizing those mechanisms. And don't even mention that IR spectrum analysis--->yes, the OH group was easy to detect... but other groups seemed to be a bit more trouble! Therefore, I practiced and practiced. And I only got a B. (I always aim for A's, nothing less. But Organic Chemistry--->I had to work hard at it--->and therefore it really does intrigue me!) OK...and so does Mathematics, physics, philosophy, certain forms engineering, economics, politics, education...etc. I have too many interests for my own good.
------------------------------------------------------------------

But aside from Organic Chemistry...we're talking about math.

One thing which I never really understood was why would people need to "study" for math. I mean, it isn't chemistry! Or computer science. Why would people need to "study" math? What/why the **** would you have to "study" something like math?

I mean, all it is (at least for me):

1) look into the chapter/section
2) understand the concept
3) take the test, get an A.

----------------------------
Then again, some people want to do some "homework problems." But why? I mean, unless:

a) the material is hard
b) you don't feel very confident
c) you are slow at certain types of problems
(not really an issue...unless you have a difficult time finishing tests )

...otherwise, there's not much reason to do that math homework

 

[misogynisticfeminist]

compete with yourself and not other people. If he's not too stuck-up, then learn from him or something, but if he is stuck-up, then screw him. don't worry, as long as you're not doing too badly, and you feel that you're learning something from the course, don't give up !

: )

 

[kdinser]

But aside from Organic Chemistry...we're talking about math.

One thing which I never really understood was why would people need to "study" for math. I mean, it isn't chemistry! Or computer science. Why would people need to "study" math? What/why the **** would you have to "study" something like math?

I mean, all it is (at least for me):

1) look into the chapter/section
2) understand the concept
3) take the test, get an A.

----------------------------
Then again, some people want to do some "homework problems." But why? I mean, unless:

a) the material is hard
b) you don't feel very confident
c) you are slow at certain types of problems
(not really an issue...unless you have a difficult time finishing tests )

...otherwise, there's not much reason to do that math homework

I hate you JK.

Sounds like an x-girlfriend of mine, she never studied for math or physics at all, got all A's.

I know what you mean about organic chem, what a beast of a class. The first test in my class, the high score was 57%.

When it comes to grades, the only thing I ever care about is the class average. As long as I know I'm putting in the work trying to learn the material, as long as my scores are coming out somewhere between the class average and the top score, I'm happy. That's the attitude that got me through calc II, how can you be upset with yourself if you put 10 to 15 hours per week into a class, get 76% on a test, and then find out that only 6 people out of 38 did better then you?

 

[Learning Curve]

its just very discouraging to see someone understand everything so easily.

There is your first problem. Quit seeing it as a negative. Don't let it get to you. You are only hurting yourself.

**EDIT: then again, i haven't been working at all, i haven't read the last 4 sections of the textbook. I am just knowing enough to do well on exams...
im gunna try giving it my all, and hopefully i won't have to worry about comparing myself to other people

Then again... that might just be the problem.

however, i do know he is from eastern europe and a lot of my friends from that area say on the average, students in eastern europe know so much more than the average american high school student.

Coming from an American high school student, don't stereotype me!:rofl:

 

[Zarathustra1]

If I were you JasonJo, I would learn from this guy. Hang out around him for a while, find out how he learns, his strategy, etc...

Take him as your new competition. Strive to excel beyond him in your Multivariable Calculus class.

Btw, I also take Multivariable Calculus at a local college during evenings after high school (hey, I'm still a HS senior! I'm 17)...and I'd probably fit the description of that guy. I don't really do much of the work anyway, and I still get A's on tests (~92%+).

Personally, I think my calculus class is moving a little too slowly. Only if I don't understand something right away will I write it in my notebook (to further practice it a little).

**And one other thing: Ok...I'm the only high school student in that class, the rest are adults. You know, I really expected a mature learning attitude from them. What I keep hearing is the same old "GIve us a 1/2 point more! Your tests are unfair! We did all that work!"---->BAHH! The same old high school crap seems to follow us into college.
For example, I also have people in my class blaming my instructor for putting limit questions on the test requiring L'Hopital's Rule. What I say: People! C'mon-->this is CalcIII, not CalcI. It's your fault for forgetting how to use it! It's your fault for forgetting to evaluate mixed partials when the test question specifically asks, "Find all the first and second partial derivatives of f(x,y)."

------------------------------------------------

However...when I took 1st semester Organic Chemistry, that was the first class I actually had to spend many hours to study for and do a large amount of work in order to be skillful and problem-solve mechanisms rapidly! However, I enjoyed it! And it was refreshing! (b/c I do enjoy chemistry)! Also a huge amount of memorization. 90% of my time I spent for the class--was spent studying/memorizing those mechanisms. And don't even mention that IR spectrum analysis--->yes, the OH group was easy to detect... but other groups seemed to be a bit more trouble! Therefore, I practiced and practiced. And I only got a B. (I always aim for A's, nothing less. But Organic Chemistry--->I had to work hard at it--->and therefore it really does intrigue me!) OK...and so does Mathematics, physics, philosophy, certain forms engineering, economics, politics, education...etc. I have too many interests for my own good.
------------------------------------------------------------------

But aside from Organic Chemistry...we're talking about math.

One thing which I never really understood was why would people need to "study" for math. I mean, it isn't chemistry! Or computer science. Why would people need to "study" math? What/why the **** would you have to "study" something like math?

I mean, all it is (at least for me):

1) look into the chapter/section
2) understand the concept
3) take the test, get an A.

----------------------------
Then again, some people want to do some "homework problems." But why? I mean, unless:

a) the material is hard
b) you don't feel very confident
c) you are slow at certain types of problems
(not really an issue...unless you have a difficult time finishing tests )

...otherwise, there's not much reason to do that math homework

Everyone's different. I'm the exact opposite of you; if I have any hope of doing well on the math tests, I have to practice the problems and, in turn, do my homework (even though I usually "get it" right off the bat, I have to practice it to get comfortable with it). On the other hand, in more memory-based subjects, I only have to examine the material once or twice and I never forget it.

 

[GCT]

the chances are you're just plain stupid

he's a freshman and he's taking a calc III course, perhpas he's one of those high iq geniuses, age 12 perhaps?

if not, he's just probably showing off, getting attention, and you're naieve enough to be concerned. Either he's genuinely interested in the subject and decently smart enough and genuine to engage himself in the discussion or he's socially inadequate (he's european afterall, superiority to the american's heh?).

why on Earth is he in your class, is this some sort of advanced higher level course? If he needs the attention let him have it, you're no dumber than he is I'm sure; he's earnest or he's simply smart, if he's simply a genius than he would not be in your class, thus he simply has a better education than you did and has a superiority complex.

 

[Manchot]

the chances are you're just plain stupid
he's a freshman and he's taking a calc III course, perhpas he's one of those high iq geniuses, age 12 perhaps?

A lot of people take Calc III their freshman year. (I did.) It's simply a matter of taking the AP BC Calc test.

 

[what]

College shouldn't be a competition, people are supposed to try their best, and those that excel in their fields get rewarded for that, and not rewarded for being smarter or doing better than someone else. That being said, this is not usually the situation in many people's minds, and in some cases not even encouraged or mentioned by the college atmosphere, it's a shame. I suggest you focus on your own study, if you believe you can do better, then do so. If you wish to put just enough effort in a class then you can't complain about someone doing better than you. There are some people that are better suited because of their genes to comprehend math and/or science, but in my opinion there are no people that are built not to comprehend something. So, no matter how smart a person is, he and you have the same potential to learn something it just may be easier for him, or not, you never know he could be studying his a$$ off.

 

[Curious3141]

There will always be somebody smarter, more hardworking, better looking or more skilful with the ladies. That's a given in life. Get used to it, maybe take it as a challenge to improve yourself to the best of your ability.

I do want to echo the sentiments of the guy who asked what was the need to study Math (or Physics). I agree, those are two subjects I breezed through in school while happily skipping lectures and avoiding any real studying. I needed the extra time freed to force myself to study Biology (which I hated at the time) which was a complete slogging subject. Ironically, I ended up doing Medicine, lol.

 

[Poop-Loops]

I could have taken Calc III (or it's IV in my school) my freshman year, but was advised to take a quarter off from math. Didn't do much either way. I'll take all the math my school has to offer by spring and transfer over to a university next year.

Anyway, your friends are right. In pretty much every other country in the world, the public education system is on a higher level than in the US. It's not that they are smarter, they are just forced to work harder. So don't worry about it. Work just as hard as him, and you'll get there.

PL

 

[Chronos]

Get used to it being a competition, because it is. You will compete with people for position and power throughout your career. That's how the real world works. Ever had a job interview?

 

[mathwonk]

I think you have a very unproductive and negative attitude. try to be glad for a person who does well. try to enjoy your work instead of thinking of it as a trial of some kind.

there is a bit of sickness in being sad and threatened by successful and contented people and their success. Would you be happier if everyone in your class were a moron and you looked brighter by comparison?

with this attitude you will be in danger of always looking for an environment where people are weak and unmotivated so you will shine in comparison.

To be your best, it is more useful to do the opposite and look for places and people who will challenge you to the maximum.

 

[ahrkron]

I agree with mathwonk.

I think that, to a large extent, college should allow and even encourage competition. After all, it is supposed to help you get prepared for what you will find after it, and in pretty much all professional activities, you will need to compete.

You may have different priorities in life (i.e., you may be more into sports than math or science, or be more concerned with starting earning money early on,... ), but, whatever it is, it is important to put all your energy into what you choose, and try to become the best on it.

 

[shmoe]

there is this one guy in my Multivariable Calculus course, he knows everything.
and it is very discouraging. when he doesn't come to class, i really get the lecture.

I found this disturbing. The guys presence in class actually inhibits your learning? Why? Is he disruptive or are you that fixated on his ability?

There are always going to be people smarter than you, people who know more than you. You are presumably at university to learn from the brighter & more knowledgeable. This isn't limited to professors but classmates as well.

 

[Pyrrhus]

Talking from experience I've been on both shoes, you and that guy, and i tell you, i look at it as a new challenge to show how good i am when someone's seems to be better than me at a subject or when the teacher is supposedly really hard.

I remember Chemistry II teacher was a challenge for me, in fact one of the classmates who took Chemistry I with him told me i wouldn't get an A. On the first week i opened my book and started studying, later on, i always read the chapter before the lecture, so finally, i got my A on Chem II. Ha!, i did what was deemed not possible .

Another experience was when i took Precalculus, when one of the students was really great with word problems, i used to just sit and wonder how did he get it. Well, i simply went to the library got a book on algebra problems and started doing them, at the end, i was as good or better with word problems. In the end, it's all about studying.

 

[JasonJo]

very true words spoken by all

i will try and stay within myself and do my best.

thanks guys, it really helped.

 

[Learning Curve]

One other thing that a few people sort of said is that you don't know how hard he works at home. You see him in class excelling, when infact, he probably goes home and works for hours just to irritate you.:rofl:

And why does he bother you? What's wrong with someone smarter than you? (There are some out there you know! ) Embrace some competition.


P.S. Start doing your homework.

 

[ludi_srbin]

Personaly I think that you just got lazy. It is not so much about the talent as it is about the hard work.

 

[ahrkron]

[...]It is not so much about the talent as it is about the hard work.

True!

Long ago, I had a classmate that was not too bright; he usually did not get the point in class and asked some of us to help him with homeworks. Some time later I found him giving a good talk on Goedel's Theorem, a topic I really like and that requires a good understanding of various concepts. To me, it was somewhat of a shock seeing this guy giving such talk, while I, who considered myself talented, was just listening, especially since, back then, this was kind of my pet topic.

I don't think I can describe clearly how I felt, but this definitely had a strong impact on me. Since then, I keep reminding myself that you can be the most talented person for a subject but, if you do not add hard work to it, all that talent makes no difference.

 

[quasi426]

People deal with competition in different ways. If it is distracting you then it is your problem. One of the objectives of going to school is to learn. Competition can usually help people learn, its a sort of artificial motivation. Being lazy will always have the effect of leaving one with regrets. Trying your hardest and failing is something some people are not ready to deal with. But let me assure you that the most successful people out there only became that way because they tryied as hard as they could and most likely failed several times along the way. Anyway compete, or don't compete but don't let it distract you. Real world problems are usually difficult and take quiet a bit of time to solve, so just being clever won't usually get you anywhere as there exist people who are both clever and motivated.

 

[masudr]

This is NOT addressed to the original poster; instead it's a general remark about life.

There will ALWAYS be someone better than you. Life doesn't always work out the way you want. When you can get over that, you'll be an adult.

 

[mathwonk]

after reflecting further, i think the poster meant he was bothered, not because the other guy knew everythign, but because the other guy talsk too much and answers every question before anyone else has a chance to think. that can be ddifficult and inhibiting,a nd poses a challenge also fore the teacher.

still, it helps to realize there is always a faster gun in town.

 

[ovoleg]

Life's life...You can't compete with some of the people out there.

I like the strategy, I can learn much faster if I sit down and put 3-4 good hours into learning from the book. Sitting in class for 3-4 hours yields an equivalent of 30mins-45mins if I studied by myself.

 

[JasonRox]

after reflecting further, i think the poster meant he was bothered, not because the other guy knew everythign, but because the other guy talsk too much and answers every question before anyone else has a chance to think. that can be ddifficult and inhibiting,a nd poses a challenge also fore the teacher.

still, it helps to realize there is always a faster gun in town.

This is very true. I used to be the fast gun in business school before I transferred to university for mathematics, and I noticed that I was taking away everyone's chance to answer the questions or think about them. I was a tutor at the time also, so I was concerned about others doing well too. Noticing this, I slowed down, and always gave some time for people to answer the questions. It might be slow, and you might notice half the class not thinking, but there are some trying... don't ignore them.

In university, I kind of fell out of the fast gun spot, which wasn't very fun. It's my fault because I wasn't studying a lot, or doing anything for that matter. I didn't participate in most of my classes this term. I'm just bored.

I noticed one student, that I know through a friend, and he is the fast gun in Abstract Algebra. I decided to start participating. It's interesting stuff, just taught very slow. Well, when it came down to finding a contradiction, I found a different solution, which was also a contradiction. I raised my hand, and explained my solution. The prof saw I was very interested in that kind of thing, and that my intuition is pretty good. He told me to talk to him after class, then he asked me if I would like to do a little project for him, so naturally I said "YES!". Unfortunately, I don't know Complex Analysis yet, but I have it next term. He told me to go to his office and he will point me in the right direction, so that's pretty cool. I'll probably go to his office today.

Anyways, the bottom line is... start working because things will pay off in the end. Because I slacked at the beginning of the term, and worked 40 hours a week, I fell behind a lot. I'm doing great in my classes though, but next term I'm only working 8 hours a week. Dedicating my time to my academics.