Factorials and Squares: Finding Solutions to a Unique Equation

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around an equation involving the sum of factorials equating to the square of a natural number. Participants are exploring the conditions under which the number of positive integers satisfying this equation can be determined.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the implications of the sum of factorials and its behavior beyond a certain point, particularly questioning the last digit of the sums and the properties of squares of natural numbers.

Discussion Status

Some participants have provided insights into the behavior of factorial sums and their relationship to squares, suggesting that for values of N greater than 3, certain relationships may not hold. There is an ongoing exploration of different interpretations of the original problem statement.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the original question involves natural numbers and the potential for multiple interpretations regarding the relationship between x and N. There is also mention of specific values obtained through trial, but no definitive conclusions have been reached.

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Homework Statement



For some natural N the no of positive integers x satisfying the equation
1! + 2! + 3! + ... + x! = (N)2 is:
A)one
B)two
C)infinite
D)none


The Attempt at a Solution


I have no idea of how to start.. never came across such problems.
By trial i have got two values for x being 1 and 3. And the answer is also two . But how do i prove it?

Please help.(just a starting guidance would be very useful)
 
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Past x=3, the sum of factorials always has a 3 in the last place, s4=33, s5 = 153, ... You need to argue that the square of a natural number cannot end with a 3.
 
Or better yet argue n(n-1)(n-2) > n^2 for n>3. If you can prove this you know for N>3 your relation can't hold, since n! > n^2 will be true.
 
fzero said:
Past x=3, the sum of factorials always has a 3 in the last place, s4=33, s5 = 153, ... You need to argue that the square of a natural number cannot end with a 3.

I found this easier, Thanks. Though i could find the answer by your method too JonF thanks!
 
You need to prove this fact if you use his method, “Past x=3, the sum of factorials always has a 3 in the last place"

n(n-1)(n-2) > n^2 for n>3 Is simple algebra.

If you expand n(n-1)(n-2) you get (n^2-n)(n-2) = n^3 – 2n^2 –n^2 +2n= n^3 – 3n^2 +2n = n^2(n-3) +2n

n^2(n-3) +2n is clearly positive if n>3.
 
Ok.. got it.
 
JonF said:
Or better yet argue n(n-1)(n-2) > n^2 for n>3. If you can prove this you know for N>3 your relation can't hold, since n! > n^2 will be true.

I'm not overly sure this is useful, as the way I read the original question x and N are two (possibly) different numbers.

It could be, for instance that 1! + 2! + 3! + 4! + 5! == 162, instead of the 52 you seem to be suggesting. Of course it isn't, but have I misinterpreted what you're saying?
 

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