Failing Chemistry: Can High Schoolers Graduate Without Knowing Logs?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the implications of high school students graduating without a solid understanding of mathematical concepts, specifically logarithms, as it relates to their performance in chemistry. Participants share personal anecdotes and opinions regarding the educational system and the preparedness of students for advanced subjects.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Meta-discussion

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses disbelief that a student could claim to have excelled in algebra 2 while lacking knowledge of logarithms, questioning the standards of high school education.
  • Another participant suggests that it is common for students to receive high grades without truly understanding the material, proposing that rote memorization may lead to inflated grades.
  • A different viewpoint argues that students who achieve lower grades may have a better grasp of the material than those who receive A's, challenging the reliability of grades as indicators of understanding.
  • Several participants engage in a side discussion about the importance of grammar and spelling in online communication, with some humorously exaggerating the significance of these issues.
  • One participant emphasizes that the chemistry class requires critical thinking skills that may not be developed if foundational math concepts are not mastered.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a mix of agreement and disagreement regarding the educational standards and the implications of grades. While some agree that high school education may fail to adequately prepare students, others defend the validity of grades as reflections of understanding, leading to an unresolved debate.

Contextual Notes

There are references to personal experiences in high school and college, highlighting variability in educational experiences and the potential disconnect between grades and actual knowledge. The discussion also touches on the informal nature of online communication and its perceived impact on credibility.

  • #31
rootX said:
Are you an English major? Just give up man. Earlier someone argued the same thing for more than 5 pages and I believe the thread was locked down because no one wanted to give up.

my major is science. I am pre dental.
 
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  • #34
sportsstar469 said:
my major is science. I am pre dental.

"Science" is a major now?...
 
  • #35
This is the funniest thread I've seen on PF.
 
  • #36
LOL I've been reading most of sportsstar469s posts in this thread and I've noted that after people made fun of his grammar mistakes he continued to make them... HAHA (You can tell he was trying to be proper but comma splice errors all around) Oh boy...

@The original post logarithms were something that I first encountered in a course called 'Calculus + Advanced Functions'. Which was a grade 12 course.

We had 4 Academic math courses at my school: Statistics, Functions, Calculus + Advanced functions and Discreet. This has changed since I've been in high school though. I don't think learning the insides and outs of log's is important for an algebra course (we do algebra in grade 8 and nothing about logs). We may have used them once or twice to figure out an exponential variable but we were never taught what they do or look like etc. etc.; only how to push the button on the calculator.

Maybe your friend should get a tutor or take the prerequisite courses from the university.
 
  • #37
rootX said:
Are you an English major? Just give up man. Earlier someone argued the same thing for more than 5 pages and I believe the thread was locked down because no one wanted to give up.
ohemgee, you're right! That was sportsstar who started that thread too.

Why, after that whole thread, would he deliberately paint a target on his forehead again?
 
  • #38
sportsstar469 said:
i've aced many college level English courses, so i think I am doing fine in english,,, even if i was as bad at English as you say though, the way your presenting it to me, is in a mean way, and kind of stating i can't do anything about it. id hope youre not like this with students who actually do struggle in physics.
You really should do something about your writing, this is ridiculous.
 
  • #39
Is this the new Monty Python skit? ...where have I been?
 
  • #40
ireallydontseethepointinusinggrammaratallperhapsweshouldjustnotuseiffromnowon

I'm sorry if this hurt any of your heads trying to read it. It hurt mine writing it. I think there is a big difference between the acceptable language in IM, and the acceptable language in a forum dedicated to science and education.
 
  • #41
I find it absolutely hilarious that people can not find the time to punctuate or spell correctly (which makes a post easier to read by others) but they can take the time to type out the word "like" 500 times in a paragraph.
 
  • #42
Pattonias said:
I think there is a big difference between the acceptable language in IM, and the acceptable language in a forum dedicated to science and education.
This is not merely opinion, it is forum rules, which all of us, including SS, agreed to:
In the interest of conveying ideas as clearly as possible, posts are required to show reasonable attention to written English communication standards. This includes the use of proper grammatical structure, punctuation, capitalization, and spelling. SMS messaging shorthand, such as using "u" for "you", is not acceptable.
 
  • #43
DaveC426913 said:
This is not merely opinion, it is forum rules, which all of us, including SS, agreed to:

Well, that being said. This thread should be locked as it has nowhere useful to go from here.
 
  • #44
Pattonias said:
Well, that being said. This thread should be locked as it has nowhere useful to go from here.
Perhaps, though considering it's GD, I haven't seen any real infractions that would warrant it being closed.
 
  • #45
I think everyone has made their point, so to prevent that this becomes a member-bashing thread I'll just repeat the guidelines that DaveC426913 looked up and close the thread.
In the interest of conveying ideas as clearly as possible, posts are required to show reasonable attention to written English communication standards. This includes the use of proper grammatical structure, punctuation, capitalization, and spelling. SMS messaging shorthand, such as using "u" for "you", is not acceptable.
 

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