Falsity of assumptions question.

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the logical structure of a proof demonstrating that \(\sqrt{3}\) is irrational. Participants explore the implications of assumptions made during the proof and the validity of conclusions drawn from them.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether proving that both assumptions (A and B) are false necessarily implies that both are individually false, raising concerns about the logical structure of the proof.
  • Another participant suggests that the assumption regarding the rational form of \(\sqrt{3}\) being in lowest terms may not be a necessary assumption, implying it could be a 'without loss of generality' statement.
  • A further reply indicates that the phrasing of the assumption could be reconsidered, suggesting a nuanced understanding of the assumptions involved in the proof.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of the assumptions made in the proof, particularly regarding whether the assumption about lowest terms is necessary or merely a convention. The discussion remains unresolved as to the implications of these assumptions on the proof's validity.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight potential limitations in the assumptions made during the proof, particularly concerning the logical implications of assuming both A and B are false without establishing their individual truth values.

tylerc1991
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In the course of proving that \sqrt{3} is irrational, I had another question pop up. To prove that \sqrt{3} is irrational, I first assumed 2 things: \sqrt{3} is rational, and the rational form of \sqrt{3} is in it's lowest form. I then broke the proof up into cases and showed that none of these cases could occur.

My question boils down to: did I actually show that \sqrt{3} is irrational?

From a purely logical standpoint, let's say that the 2 assumptions I made were named A and B. I successfully showed that A \wedge B is false. However, this doesn't mean that BOTH A and B are false. More specifically, A could be true and B could be false, and I would still arrive at A \wedge B being false.

On the other hand, the second assumption that was made (the rational form of \sqrt{3} is in it's lowest form) shouldn't (doesn't?) change the problem.

Could someone give me solace and explain this little technicality I have? Thank you very much!
 
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tylerc1991 said:
On the other hand, the second assumption that was made (the rational form of \sqrt{3} is in it's lowest form) shouldn't (doesn't?) change the problem.
If you are merely assuming that, then you do have a problem, and you have merely proved:
If sqrt(3) is rational, then it cannot be expressed as a fraction in lowest terms​
(or something equivalent)

But you don't have to merely assume that a rational number can be written in lowest terms, do you?
 
Hurkyl said:
But you don't have to merely assume that a rational number can be written in lowest terms, do you?

So this isn't really an assumption, per se? This is more of a 'without loss of generality' statement?
 
Right, although I wouldn't have chosen that phrasing.
 

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