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News Feinstein: Assault Weapons Ban Bill

  1. Dec 27, 2012 #1

    nsaspook

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    http://www.feinstein.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/assault-weapons

    Mainly a rehash but this is the section that will kill the bill if it remains in.

    A complete database of most gun owners in America complete with fingerprints and photos because IMO most gun owners will have at least one weapon that meets some criteria of the bill.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2012
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  3. Dec 27, 2012 #2

    phinds

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    Yeah, we'll have to have a lot more children murdered before congress would dare pass anything that the NRA doesn't like
     
  4. Dec 27, 2012 #3
    And in what way will a database prevent somebody from stealing (or even just borrowing) a gun from a relative and using it?
     
  5. Dec 27, 2012 #4

    russ_watters

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    It won't prevent, but should reduce, since most such killings have used legally obtained weapons.

    It should also reduce straw purchases by making them easier to track.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2012
  6. Dec 27, 2012 #5
    How does banning certain features like a thumbhole stock make it any more difficult to shoot somebody? That is just cosmetics.
     
  7. Dec 28, 2012 #6

    MarneMath

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    No, not at all. It's a way to make a semi go fully automatic.
     
  8. Dec 28, 2012 #7
    A thumbhole stock has nothing to do with making the weapon fully automatic, and all guns manufactured in the U.S. must be made where they cannot easily be converted to fully automatic. Any gun that is easy to convert to automatic is considered under the law as an automatic fire weapon.
     
  9. Dec 28, 2012 #8

    MarneMath

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    I wrote a reply earlier that got deleted so just check your email for the notification . Short and simple, attach the stock and adjust the trigger well you can an auto feel. Almost like using the spring in a butt stock and forward pistol grip to automatically launch the bolt forward.
     
  10. Dec 28, 2012 #9

    russ_watters

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  11. Dec 28, 2012 #10
    Bans or limits on bump fire mechanisms I can understand, bans on things like pistol grips I think are silly.
     
  12. Dec 28, 2012 #11

    russ_watters

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    I think a pistol grip implies firing from the hip instead of aiming like with a "real" rifle. That's the difference between a gun meant for hunting and one that's well suited for hosing down a room full of kids.

    A pistol grip shotgun for home defense would different to me though, since the range is generally very low and firing from the hip more normal.
     
  13. Dec 28, 2012 #12

    nsaspook

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    Anyone who has shot expert with at M-16 would disagree about the pistol grip nonsense. A huge number of the AR-15 type rifles are owned by former military members who have never hip-shot a weapon in combat, that crap only happens in video games and bad movies.

    http://www.thefirearmsforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=17949&d=1214659269
    http://www.thefirearmsforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=17950&d=1214659269
     
  14. Dec 28, 2012 #13
    If you want to hose down a room full of kids, firing from the hip doesn't make sense. You'd probably not hit a thing doing that. I also doubt the types of people who would shoot at a room full of children would care whether their weapon of choice has a pistol grip or not. After all, if you're willing to break the law by murdering people, why would you bother paying attention to gun laws?
     
  15. Dec 28, 2012 #14

    russ_watters

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    I was in the navy and tested sharpshooter on the M-16, the one and only time I had the opportunity to qualify and I didn't say you would shoot from the hip in combat. But a non-military mass murderer who know little more than what they see in movies might be inclined to do it.

    Oh, and just for clarity, I didn't literally mean shooting from the hip: I really meant any shooting position below shouldered (such as is described in your links), where you are't actually aiming. Aiming matters less when you can spray more bullets.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2012
  16. Dec 28, 2012 #15

    russ_watters

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    At close range, when you're firing dozens of bullets at multiple targets, clustered together, I think you could hit quite a lot.
    I'm sure they don't put much thought into it; they just buy a gun they know is designed as an assault weapon. So what? I haven't put much thought into the particulars of the suspension system design on my car either. Someone else did that for me.
    What does "pay attention" mean? It certainly makes a difference whether they can buy everything they need at K-Mart or not. They will find out out about gun laws when they go and try to buy an assault weapon and are unsuccessful, whether they are "paying attention" or not.

    The fact of the matter is that most of the weapons purchased in these mass killings were purchased legally, so it stands to reason that gun laws that change the type of available guns will have an impact on what kinds of guns are used in these crimes.

    The pistol used in the 2011 Tuscon shooting had a legally obtained 33 round magazine from which 31 shots were fired. The shooter was taken down by bystanders when he couldn't reload smoothly. It stands to reason that if he had had a 10 round magazine, there would have been fewer people shot: the magazine he used was one that was banned for a few years under the '94 assault weapons ban.

    And, the shooter tried to buy more ammo the morning of the shooting but was thwarted by a WalMart clerk who didn't like his demeanor.

    Sure, people can try to find black market sources for guns and ammo, but that is difficult, expensive and risky.

    Availability matters.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2012
  17. Dec 28, 2012 #16

    Astronuc

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    A reason to address availability of guns: the Christmas Eve ambush slaying of two volunteer firefighters responding to a house fire in upstate New York.

    Now, a 24-year-old woman was arrested Friday and charged in connection with the Christmas Eve ambush slaying.

    She apparently purchased the Bushmaster and shotgun used by the shooter who apparently committed suicide.

    http://news.yahoo.com/ny-woman-arrested-connection-slaying-2-195532926.html
     
  18. Dec 28, 2012 #17
    Let's also remember that no gun one can buy in America "hoses" or "sprays" bullets.

    Remember "assault weapon" is just a term referring to cosmetics on the weapon, such as a pistol grip, folding or retractable stock, bayonet lug, etc...on the magazines, people can have an argument I think, but even that depends. For example, the Virginia Tech shooter reloaded fifteen times. And reloading wouldn't have stopped Adam Lanza. James Holmes, if he'd had to reload ten round magazines repeatedly, might have been able to shoot more people then he did, because his 100 round drum magazine jammed. Those are very prone to jamming. 10 round magazines are not very prone to jamming, and he'd have probably been able to keep reloading them with the tear gas he'd fired.
     
  19. Dec 28, 2012 #18

    russ_watters

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    I wouldn't consider most of those features "cosmetic". Even if they were, they would be included in the ban for recognizably, which is still fine with me.
    Sure, the need to reload stopped some, but not all. So what? I'm not claiming it can reduce the death toll of all or eliminate all mass killings, I'm just saying it will help. You agree it will help, right?
     
  20. Dec 28, 2012 #19

    nsaspook

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    Actually you are aiming but just not using the rear sights at under 25 meters. Instead of three point aim it's a two point aim. It's a good thing most gangsters learn weapons handling from movies because they actually think aiming matters less when you can "spray bullets" unfortunately it's usually why bystanders get shot instead of the intended target.

    The only reason it's (pistol grip) in the law is cosmetics unless these are assault weapons too. http://www.harrogateshooting.co.uk/shooting.html
     
  21. Dec 28, 2012 #20
    Not sure what you mean when you say, "they would be included in the ban for recognizably?" I do not see how a folding or collapsible stock makes any difference regarding the gun's ability to shoot, or pistol grip (you can fire a rifle with a pistol grip from the hip if that is what one wants to do)., or bayonet lug (has a criminal ever fixed a bayonet and charged?).

    It probably would help, but I don't know if it would help enough to where it makes sense to limit the ordinary citizen in terms of the size of the magazine they can use. Take car accidents. About 3X as many people died in car accidents in 2011 as died from gun violence. So should we ban sports cars and put limits on the rate at which a car can accelerate from 0-60 and on the top speed cars can be capable of going to? Wouldn't that help limit some of the car accidents by some amount? About the same number of people each year are killed by drunk drivers/driving as are killed by gun violence as well, but imagine the uproar if someone decided to ban alcohol and could enforce the ban, or limit how much people could buy?
     
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