Feynman’s path integral and an electron in a Penning trap

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the application of Feynman’s path integral and its implications for the behavior of an electron in a Penning trap. Participants explore the validity of a simplified formula for estimating the time it takes for a particle to escape a confined space, particularly in the context of quantum mechanics and the uncertainty principle.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions why the experiment of capturing an electron in a Penning trap does not invalidate Feynman’s formula, given the expected escape time calculated using the formula.
  • Another participant notes that the simplified formula used does not account for the potential height, which is significant for the electron's behavior.
  • A further participant warns about the dangers of using simplified formulas and questions whether it is correct to conclude that a free electron would randomly swap its position by approximately 1 meter every second based on the calculations presented.
  • One participant provides an interpretation of the formula, explaining that it applies to an object in free space and that confinement (like in a Penning trap) alters the expected behavior, emphasizing that the uncertainty principle leads to different consequences in bound systems.
  • It is mentioned that applying the formula to a diamond in a box is misleading due to the confining walls, which would prevent escape for a significantly longer time than the formula suggests, with quantum tunneling being a much slower process.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the applicability of Feynman’s formula in confined systems, with some arguing that it is misleading while others question its implications for free particles. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the validity of the formula in the context of the Penning trap.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in the assumptions made when applying simplified formulas, particularly regarding the confinement of particles and the implications of the uncertainty principle. There is an acknowledgment that the behavior of particles in bound states is more complex than the formula suggests.

ajw1
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Last night the BBC repeated Brian Cox, A Night With the Stars (). At some point a calculation is done using a simplified version of Feynman’s path integral, where the mean time is estimated for a diamond to be found outside a small box:

t>[itex]\frac{x Δx m}{h}[/itex]

The box was not expected to be found empty then after several hundred billion times the age of the universe.
But yet in 1973 it was found to be possible to capture a single electron in a Penning trap, and keep it there for over a week (http://www.iap.uni-bonn.de/lehre/ss06_physik_einz_teil/Inhalte/references/PRL31_Wineland73.pdf ). So when I apply the formula above to the electron, I find that I only have to wait for about a second to have a reasonable chance to find it one meter outside of that trap.
So why doesn’t this experiment invalidate Feynman’s formula?
 
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He used a simplified formula - in particular, the potential height is not part of the final result, but it has to for the electron.
 
It is always dangerous to use simplified formulas, as you show here.

So is it right to conclude that a free electron will swap its position randomly in space by roughly 1 meter every second (I take Δx = 1 mm and x=1m, and arrive at t=1.4sec)?
 
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The interpretation of the formula in the original post is this: suppose I have an object of mass ##m## in free space, and I know that the particle is somewhere in a region of size ##\Delta x##. Because of the uncertainty principle, the object cannot have exactly zero momentum. Therefore eventually it will move out of these region of space. The formula gives the time ##t## at which the object can be expected to have moved a distance of about ##x## as a result of this nonzero momentum.

In particular, that formula only applies to an object in free space. If we confine the object somehow, such as electron in a trap, that formula has nothing to say about this situation. As an example, if the only object in the universe were a hydrogen atom, consisting of one electron bound to one proton, the electron would *never* escape the proton. (The uncertainty principle still applies, but its consequences are more subtle).

Applying the formula to a diamond in a box is thus misleading, because the box has walls that will keep the diamond inside the box for vastly longer than the formula suggests. The diamond can in principle eventually escape, but only through quantum tunneling, which, for the case of a diamond in a box, would take an almost infinite amount of time.
 

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